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BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

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  • BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

    All non-Zavod Maps

    Map Name Winning Side Tickets Winning Side Kills # Tickets Bled % of Enemy's Tickets Bled Winning Side Net Kills Losing Side Tickets Losing Side Kills # Tickets Bled % of Enemy's Tickets Bled Net Tickets Bled for Winner
    Golmud Railway 628 102 698 87% -6 0 108 64 37% 634
    Dawn Breaker 752 114 686 86% 62 0 52 -4 -8% 690
    Rogue Transmission 448 141 659 82% 48 0 93 259 74% 400
    Golmud Railway 524 245 555 69% 56 0 189 87 32% 468
    Flood Zone 680 278 522 65% 158 0 120 0 0% 522
    Paracel Storm 378 303 497 62% 74 0 229 193 46% 304
    Lancang Dam 329 308 492 62% 94 0 214 257 55% 235
    Golmud Railway 276 339 461 58% 39 0 300 224 43% 237
    Rogue Transmission 433 341 459 57% 116 0 225 142 39% 317
    Golmud Railway 82 341 459 57% -3 0 344 374 52% 85
    Flood Zone 289 348 452 57% 62 0 286 225 44% 227
    Rogue Transmission 308 374 426 53% 56 0 318 174 35% 252
    Hainan Resort 421 376 424 53% 102 0 274 105 28% 319
    Rogue Transmission 87 392 408 51% 21 0 371 342 48% 66
    Operation Locker 447 394 406 51% 41 0 353 0 0% 406
    Flood Zone 186 396 404 51% 35 0 361 253 41% 151
    Flood Zone 79 396 404 51% 55 0 341 380 53% 24
    Hainan Resort 421 399 401 50% 133 0 266 113 30% 288
    Flood Zone 35 486 314 39% 80 0 406 359 47% -45
    Mean 358 320 480 60% 64 0 255 187 37% 294

    Zavod 311
    Map Name Winning Side Tickets Winning Side Kills # Tickets Bled % of Enemy's Tickets Bled Winning Side Net Kills Losing Side Tickets Losing Side Kills # Tickets Bled % of Enemy's Tickets Bled Net Tickets Bled for Winner
    Zavod 311 374 266 534 67% 35 0 231 195 46% 339
    Zavod 311 483 451 349 44% 191 0 260 57 18% 292
    Zavod 311 166 589 211 26% 118 0 471 163 26% 48
    Zavod 311 42 599 201 25% 6 0 593 165 22% 36
    Zavod 311 221 612 188 24% 60 0 552 27 5% 161
    Zavod 311 75 651 149 19% 116 0 535 190 26% -41
    Zavod 311 26 666 134 17% 34 0 632 142 18% -8
    Mean 198 548 252 32% 80 0 468 134 23% 118
    Sample is from games I played on TG over the past 5 days

    -----

    I've broken these into two charts. Zavod has an even number of flags, so it's possible (in fact likely) that much of the game will be played without bleed. It's no surprise that Zavod features on average 1,016 kills per round compared to other maps' average of 575 kills.

    As you can see, bleed plays a huge role in the winner. On non-zavod maps, the winning team bled the losing team for on average 294 more tickets than the losing team bled the winning team. The winning team on average only killed 64 more opposing players than the losing team did.

    Out of 20 non-Zavod games that I looked at, in only ONE did the winning side bleed fewer tickets than their opponent did. And in that game, the winning team only had 35 tickets, one of the closest rounds we've had.

    For what it's worth these charts show why Zavod is my favorite map. Bleed still plays a big part, but in a dynamic way that doesn't tend to mean that one side gets bleed and just wrings it out the rest of the game. It's a map that leads to good games, there's a lot of movement from flag to flag but NOT in a "whackamole" type of way. There's armor presence on the map, but it's not overwhelming. There's a lot of opportunity for squad play.
    .

  • #2
    Re: Charts Showing Effect of Bleed (It's really darn important)

    Contesting a flag rather than camping it for kills makes a huge difference.
    sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
    [unit][armor]

    Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

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    • #3
      Re: Charts Showing Effect of Bleed (It's really darn important)

      I think I agree with you, but can you elaborate?
      .

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      • #4
        Re: Charts Showing Effect of Bleed (It's really darn important)

        Sorry was right in the middle of something so I had to keep it short :)

        My idea is that if I am rocking a squad my goal will be to focus on one flag and keep it either capped or contested. If the flag is capped, great now our team has one more that the enemy will have to worry about, plus the flag may provide us with some tactical advantage such as a Cruise missile or mobile artillery or w/e extra asset it provides.

        However, if the flag is heavily defended capping might not be to easy however if my squad is focused inside the capzone the enemy will be forced to respond, if they send a force to small they won't be able to root us out and we will eventually capture it, but if they send a force to big they will have less assets working on the other flags hence my team will have an easier time with their objectives. Also just because they send a tank our way doesn't mean we have to destroy it, as long as we can minimize the damage and keep it occupied I'm satisfied.

        Point of this for me is to cripple the enemy as much as possible by having them waste time, assets and manpower trying to capture a flag held by just a regular 5 man squad whereas I feel that camping a flag is when you sit on the outskirts and harass the occassional dude that runs by, sure some people will come after you but the enemy team probably won't commit full squads and assets since you are mostly just harassing them and not really posing any serious threat other than getting picked off occasionally.
        sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
        [unit][armor]

        Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Charts Showing Effect of Bleed (It's really darn important)

          and that's great as long as you're not under bleed. It's always good if the other team is responding to you rather than responding to what the other team is doing. But if you're under bleed and you're just sitting there, doing nothing except waiting, you're probably not accomplishing the teamwide goal.

          Take a round from last night. A very close flood zone match where CN had the outside flags (A,E,D) and US had the inside ones (C and B). US managed to capture A, so a CN squad responds by trying to take Bravo. There was a squad on the rooftops between Echo and Bravo that had been there all game. When CN had US under bleed, this was great. It meant that the line of battle was pushed toward B&C, and they could fall back to Echo as needed. But once the team was under bleed and had no realistic possibility of getting bleed back EXCEPT by taking Bravo, that squad needed to push in. Let me show you a screen cap:



          That's not helpful. Reaper's squad had just pushed into Bravo and rather than advance and secure, the squad stayed there. What was a good position to be in five minutes ago, suddenly doesn't help the team. In this position, US forces are perfectly happy to let the circled squad stay there in a stand-off.

          (Just as a clarification: I'm not disagreeing with you. Just trying to add nuance to it. I'm pretty sure we're on the same page)
          .

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          • #6
            Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

            Amazing research, well presented +rep!

            "% of Enemy's Tickets Bled" - Just to clarify, that tells us how what percentage of tickets were lost to bleed? (as opposed to -1 ticket for each death?)

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            • #7
              Re: Charts Showing Effect of Bleed (It's really darn important)

              Originally posted by Zoraster View Post
              and that's great as long as you're not under bleed. It's always good if the other team is responding to you rather than responding to what the other team is doing. But if you're under bleed and you're just sitting there, doing nothing except waiting, you're probably not accomplishing the teamwide goal.
              Never had time to get to that part, you're way to fast for me :row__685:

              What flag I chose is sort of dependent on this and what the rest of my team is planning, a flag just outside the main that probably won't see too much action for the duration of the round is of very little interest, I'm not saying it doesn't require protection just that it doesn't require full time protection from a commited 5-man squad. However a flag that every asset in the enemies main will have to taxi by? Yeah that's going to be a pain the A for them and I doubt they will just let it slide getting hit by rockets every time they pass by heading to the larger scale battle(I find one of these on every map, an area where the majority of both teams are focused) as well as getting constantly flanked because the enemy has a spawn behind your lines.

              This is just my way of looking at it, whenever I play any type of strategy game my style usually involves stacking the odds against me and just squeezing every last ounce of strength out to make the best out of it with the least possible.
              Seriously you should see me play CoH with my buds, I can pull sick comebacks from terrible situations but the moment I get a major advantage I'm screwed :D
              sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
              [unit][armor]

              Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                Amazing research, well presented +rep!

                "% of Enemy's Tickets Bled" - Just to clarify, that tells us how what percentage of tickets were lost to bleed? (as opposed to -1 ticket for each death?)
                Yeah, it's ((800-Enemy's Tickets Remaining-Number of Unrevived Kills Your Team Had)/(800-Enemy's Tickets Remaining)

                So basically, if it's 55%, you know that 45% of your enemy's tickets went away because they died and weren't revived whereas 55% went away because they were bled away. I'm using battlelog's stats here, so it IS subject to whatever whims that piece of software has.

                That DOES mean that there are a certain number of tickets lost not to bleed but to teamkills or suicides that are being counted as bled.
                .

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                • #9
                  Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                  Presumably you gathered two key pieces of data per side
                  Winning/Losing Side Tickets
                  Winning/Losing Side Kills

                  How did you gather the side kills, was it a count of the scoreboard between rounds ?
                  If so can you be sure that data is complete ?
                  eg what about player who have left the server etc

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                  • #10
                    Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                    Go into your battlelog and hit the clipboard button in the upper right hand. There, you'll find a list of all your past games. If you load that, it has it broken down. That count SHOULD count people who left the server. In fact, if you look at the scoreboard, it shows in gray those who did.
                    .

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                    • #11
                      Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                      I looked at battlelog and its seems complete data, like you said
                      So your data collecting is good and your reasoning from the data is good

                      I can see this thread as being a bit of a landmark thread for BF4 at TG, as strong bleed forms the foundation of winning strategy
                      To simplify your numbers, on 90% of maps, the losing team losses 60% of tickets from map bleed and 40% from bullets
                      To simplify further, map bleed wins the game

                      commanders take note, this is key

                      in BF2142 map bleed was weak and games were won by killing more enemy's, so you wanted to set up situations were enemy's walked into your killzone again and again, so flag capture was about setting up the correct kill zones, sometimes you could win a game by having less flags but better killzones. Crux comes to mind as writing the detailed posts on this in the TG 2142 era

                      in BF2 TG had a modded server with higher than normal ticket bleed, this led to the general strategy of take one more flag than the enemy and then hold and play defensive. This simple strategy worked. Where there is strong bleed the ideal is to have more flags and have it very predictable where they are attacking you so you can have a killzone too, emale did a big thread on this in POE2? called defensive triangle ? emale can you give a linky

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                      • #12
                        Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                        I'd love to get actual bleed numbers (i.e. "on maps with 7 flags, having 4 leads to X number of tickets per minute, 5 flags leads to Y number) etc. I think that would help SLs and COs make good decisions in certain situations.
                        .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                          Legendary post Zoraster!

                          Your +rep should've exploded....

                          Thanks for the hard work..

                          I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                          Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                          J.F.C. Fuller

                          Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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                          • #14
                            Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                            actually, whiskysix gave me negative rep. I suspect it was an accident though
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: BF4 Ticket Bleed (It's really darn important!)

                              You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Zoraster again. :-)
                              sigpic

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