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  • Silly sights

    IMHO, jumping around throwing c4 is really silly looking. It seems thats all i see from some people these days. I know this was discussed at length back in the summer but jeesh, anything to get over.

    I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

    Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
    J.F.C. Fuller

    Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

  • #2
    Re: Silly sights

    It's quite irritating when I'm shooting one of these C4 monkies jumping around a friendly tank, miss because he's "jumping to throw it further and not to avoid fire", and he gets the tank. Sure, I usually get the kill but it's still annoying.

    All you can do is hold yourself to the higher standard that just because we don't have a rule doesn't mean you should do it.
    Skud


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    • #3
      Re: Silly sights

      It's just as bad as bunny hopping to me. It would be nice to see it removed from the game as it was in BF2, but I am not holding my breath. Instead we must find ways to deal with this on the battlefield, there is usually a solution.


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      • #4
        Re: Silly sights

        Edit: nvm I'm not gonna go there..


        So, wanted to say or do anything constructive or just complain and call people by names like a mature player should?
        Nubhar

        - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

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        • #5
          Re: Silly sights

          3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing superior real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging advantages provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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          • #6
            Re: Silly sights

            Guys this (or close to it, actually involving jumping to throw C4 farther) was already beaten like a dead horse a while back, actually 6 pages worth of beatings here. I don't think we need to go back into this topic.

            Let me quote Lorax's final point, and a few other points from the thread:

            I think we've gone far enough with this conversation.

            As it stands, we will continue to allow "jump throws" but like everything else, we ask that you show self-restraint and don't abuse the privilege. Abusing it is subjective, but I would start by saying if you find yourself switching from your rifle with a full clip to C-4 just to kill one person within tossing range, odds are good that your abusing it.

            And before someone sees the need for a thread about parachute use, I'll clear that up right now: Parachutes are part of the game and since we lack cliffs or heights of any real substance, houses and other miscellaneous buildings will have to suffice as "high enough for a parachute".

            Bunny hopping will continue to be defined as any jump or series of jumps made with the intention of avoiding fire in the absence of cover. E.G. if you jump to get behind a wall, crate, or through a window and you're being shot at, you're fine. If you jump just to throw off someone's aim, that's a problem.

            Do we strive for realism? Yes we do, however there are limits and it is safe to say that BC2 is not PR nor is it TF2, it's somewhere in the middle.

            If there is a problem with any of these judgments, please bring it to the appropriate Contact an Admin forum.

            Thanks.
            Ferris:
            See, now you're missing the point. Tactical gameplay is paramount at TG, so long as that gameplay follows the design of the game. Rocketjumping was built into TF2 as a side effect of its immense popularity in TFC. Players wanted it, so they got it. By design. Not through someone discovering a glitch. This is evident by the fact that throughout the lifespan of TF2, the developers have tweaked the damage taken by players rocketjumping on several occasions.

            I'll repeat what I've said before that you keep overlooking. The ability to super-throw C4 in BC2 has nothing to do with whether or not its realistic. BC2 as a whole is horribly unrealistic. The focus is the fact that the ability to execute the super throw is a bug, a glitch in the system that was not designed as such by the developers. It is an action that when combined with another action causes a fault in the game engine and causes abnormal behavior. The same way that fast switching weapons at the beginning of a reload cancels the reload animation.

            You can justify it any way you want, but the reality is that it IS a bug. Using it, by definition, IS an exploit. We have rules against using exploits to gain an unfair advantage over other players. This is why we outlawed using C4 to destroy MCOMs from outside structures that cant be damaged. This is why we outlawed the fastswtich reload bug. It has nothing to do with realism or tactical play or lack thereof. Its breaking the mechanics of the game. C4 is not supposed to be able to be thrown into sniper perches from below. Thats what grenades and counter-sniping are for. But with this, you change the dynamic because anyone with a fistful of c4 can now knock out a sniper on a cliff if he can throw it just right.

            But you keep changing your argument as to why it should be kept in. First it was because it was the only way that the developers could simulate realism, now it has nothing to do with realism, but tactical play. This is where we start beating a dead horse. A bug is a bug is a bug. Either we draw the line or we dont. I've never exploited a flaw in a game and I dont intend to start now. It's against what TG stands for. If you feel comfortable with doing the opposite because the developers havent officially acknowledged that its a bug, as you previously stated, then fine. But ask yourself this: where do you draw the line? How much does something have to effect gameplay in order for you to say "wait a second, this isnt the way it was designed"?
            One of WhiskeySix's Questions:

            Gameplay > Realism.

            That being said, anyone who thinks that realism has no part in BC2 needs to reevaluate why they are a part of this community. "Supporting game play in a near-simulation environment" is a goal of EVERY game at TG. There are, and will continue to be, rules that exist solely to create this environment.

            To me it's mostly about being consistent: Given the reasons that jumping to avoid fire is prohibited, how one can argue that jumping to throw things farther is condoned?
            Ferris' response:

            Because jumping to avoid fire doesn't simulate anything while jumping to throw stuff further simulates putting more force behind your throw.
            As such the discussion got into random stuff behind the physics of throwing C4, whether or not throwing C4 would cause it to explode in real life, whether or not it is really an adventitious design flaw, etc. Skud's point above wraps up a lot of what the discussion revolved around.



            Former TG-21st
            Swift Mobile On Target

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            • #7
              Re: Silly sights

              Mac is right, this topic was beaten dead a while ago. All I'm going to add to this topic is this: While the admins did not officially rule jump-throwing C4 equivalent to bunnyhopping, it IS bunnyhopping if you are jump-throwing it while someone is shooting at you. That includes trying to throw it at tanks while the tank gunner is shooting at you. Please keep this in mind.
              "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Silly sights

                You cant *bump* a locked thread. Plus i already stated the fact that it was mentioned a while ago. My intent of the OP was that it is happening more and more on the server and people are using it as an excuse to avoid fire.

                I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                J.F.C. Fuller

                Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Silly sights

                  Originally posted by VoodooIT View Post
                  Mac is right, this topic was beaten dead a while ago. All I'm going to add to this topic is this: While the admins did not officially rule jump-throwing C4 equivalent to bunnyhopping, it IS bunnyhopping if you are jump-throwing it while someone is shooting at you. That includes trying to throw it at tanks while the tank gunner is shooting at you. Please keep this in mind.
                  I'd have to disagree with jump-throwing C4 while a tank is shooting at you. Your intent is to throw the C4 farther. Not to avoid fire by jumping.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Silly sights

                    Originally posted by Tllyx View Post
                    I'd have to disagree with jump-throwing C4 while a tank is shooting at you. Your intent is to throw the C4 farther. Not to avoid fire by jumping.
                    Regardless of the person's intent, I would imagine the act of jumping while you are knowingly being shot at is prohibited, but that's just my interpretation of the rules.
                    "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Silly sights

                      I wasn't referring to the person jumping and me missing while I'm actually in the tank. No, I'm talking about when I'm tagging along as a faithful engineer with a friendly tank when suddenly a pack of wild C4 monkies starts running around throwing C4 everywhere, and jumping, causing me to miss a few critical shots leading to them detonating the C4. Blam goes the tank.
                      Skud


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                      • #12
                        Re: Silly sights

                        I died countless times to these green hairy, suicidal monkies which i could of blast to pieces, but it decided to jump and throw even thou it was close enough to just place it, blowing me and it self sky high.
                        Last edited by PL_OSTRY; 12-09-2010, 02:37 PM.
                        sigpic


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                        • #13
                          Re: Silly sights

                          Originally posted by VoodooIT View Post
                          Regardless of the person's intent, I would imagine the act of jumping while you are knowingly being shot at is prohibited, but that's just my interpretation of the rules.
                          Because of the design/geometry of most BF games, including BC2, I'd say that's true for *MOST* cases, but not all. Specifically, jumping to get over obstacles.

                          When I take fire, my first instinct is to take cover. I figure in the second or 2 that I have, the best chance I have to survive is to take cover instead of trying to seek out the attacker out in the open. The problem with this strategy is that often times, small rocks, walls, or even 'leftover' walls trip up or even stop player movement. Many times I tried getting around to cover, but I get stopped by some remnant wall, and end up dying from essentially becoming a still target.

                          This situation is obviously case dependent and doesn't happen very often, as I wouldn't jump while taking fire out in the open, but if I take fire and I see a perceived obstacle in my path to take cover, I will jump over it to prevent getting stuck on it. I'm not jumping to avoid fire, just jumping to avoid getting stuck while taking fire.

                          I guess what it boils down to is I refuse to accept the idea of dying because I got stuck on something when I could have possibly survived by getting to cover in time.

                          *Note* Obviously, this has nothing to do with jumping with C4.


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                          • #14
                            Re: Silly sights

                            Theres a big difference between what you're doing and bunnyhopping, Brokeback. What you're doing is perfectly reasonable. Everyone who has ever played the game knows that the geometries, textures and placement of obstacles requires some various acrobatics from time to time to get around. That is absolutely permissible.

                            What isnt is the people who are out in the open and just bash the jump key over and over and over. Thats bunnyhopping. TG has the best admins in the business and they definitely know the difference. Its not always easy to determine intent when watching a player's actions, but in this case its generally pretty black and white.

                            So you've got nothing to be concerned with, your actions are A-OK.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Silly sights

                              If you're running down the street and someone lights you up with an AR, turning around to jump and throw C4 at them is (in my books) pretty clear intent of avoiding fire by bunny hopping and suicide tactics.

                              At the same time, if someone starts lighting you up, you get for cover, throw C4 over the cover, and then blow the C4 -- this is smart use of tools. You show honest intent because you get for cover, and you do jump to use the tool in the best way -- throw it over cover to kill enemy, while being safe yourself.

                              It's a judgment call on the case of admins.

                              What's not a judgment call is what should be happening instead of this thread -- each of us with TG tags is held to a higher standard and making public threads aimed at (I assume) other TGers isn't good enough: if you notice a TGer breaking rules, or acting questionably, contact the person, or contact an admin. This thread does little to resolve the issue.

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