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Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

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  • Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

    There are two often heard in-game complaints about medics:
    1. they are not reviving you enough
    2. they are not killing the enemy(s) that killed you before reviving.


    These complaints betray an expectation that medics will clean up your mess.

    Often what I see is people rushing into an an area without support or intell, getting killed, and then complaining that they are left to die.

    If you are killed, it is due to a mistake that you made. Complaining about your teammates unwillingness to get killed by the forces that killed you is odd.

    The medic is not doing his job if he fails to revive you, he is not doing his job if he fails to kill the enemy(s) that killed you, or so the complaints go . . .

    You would have the medic do what you could not do, or clean up the mess that you made.

    Let's stop the in-game whining about how medics are not doing their job while you are making one error after another . . .

    Take more responsibility for getting needlessly fragged.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

    Well, as the lead "whiner" about medics, I'm going to disagree here.

    The "whining" is not based on medics being a panacea, it's the fact that on Rush attack I'm not seeing as many as there needs to be. See, now we can hit Enter and see just what kits our teammates are playing as. It's a new thing in R10. So when I hit Enter to see if someone in my squad is a medic and can come revive me, and see that there are 3 medics on the whole team, I'm going to say something. That's not whining, that's bringing up an issue that needs to be corrected. Multiple times one round I hit Enter and saw no one else alive playing medic. So multiple times I brought it up in TS. That's not whining, that's called communicating the team's need. I see way too many people playing Recon and Assault on Rush attack, when the team really needs more Medics. Half the team should be wearing the red beret on Rush attack, half the team should be laying down fire from MGs, half the team should be yelling "Clear!" as they reclaim a ticket and keep the push going. It does not work otherwise. That's all there is to it. If the teams are anywhere near even, then the team that keeps the pressure up will win.

    Furthermore, Rush is won at the front. You call it getting fragged needlessly, I call it attacking the objective. The entire point of Rush is the crates. I am often the first one to die, because I like to lead the way. I understand that, and that's fine. When I crack the wall though, when I kill one of them and go down in a blaze of glory, and they start reloading weapons and dropping ammo boxes, that's when four or five teammates should run in and light them up. Then, I can be revived. Instead, I see everyone still back at the last good cover, shooting at the enemy. You know, the enemy that has unlimited tickets.

    If you are not moving forward on Rush, if you are not constantly prodding and pushing and probing for a weak point, if you are not trying to move closer to the crate, then you are not helping. Suppressive fire does not work in video games In real life, having your buddies head explode from a sniper's bullet, or watching your captain go down riddled by machine gun fire, has an incredibly demoralizing effect. Taking down leadership in particular can cause entire units to huddle in the dirt, afraid to expose themselves to fire their weapons. That is not true in video games. No one cares if they die, because they respawn.

    Let's take a really common example. Say we have two attackers behind a wall, with 20 feet of open ground, before another wall held by the defenders. Attacker A moves from behind the wall, with his buddy B covering him. Halfway across the field, Defender C pops up and begins shooting at A. B immediately returns fire at C, but A is killed. A second later C dies. Then, instead of moving up and reviving A, B sits there. 10 seconds later, we are back to status quo ante, except the attackers now have one less ticket.

    Covering fire does not work, suppressive fire does not work, because the defenders have unlimited tickets. The only way to win Rush is to concentrate the team, break the line, and take the crate. You do this not by holding back, not by camping, because killing them is the means, not the end. The perfect Rush maneuver is to arm the crate without killing anyone, because killing them alerts them to your presence. Medics are the sine qua non of this mission. Unless your team really needs a smoke launcher, or really needs recon balls, spawn medic. Your team will thank you.

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    • #3
      Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

      Originally posted by E-Male View Post
      Often what I see is people rushing into an an area without support or intell, getting killed, and then complaining that they are left to die.
      Originally posted by Britt View Post
      When I crack the wall though, when I kill one of them and go down in a blaze of glory, and they start reloading weapons and dropping ammo boxes, that's when four or five teammates should run in and light them up. Then, I can be revived. Instead, I see everyone still back at the last good cover, shooting at the enemy. You know, the enemy that has unlimited tickets.
      If I rushed on Valdez stage 2 across the hill, and the people behind me were not medics or smoking, I've got a right to call them out. Not to whine or complain, but to call for more medics and fix the issue, and have a successful assault. (First thing to do is to switch to medic myself.)

      If I rushed Laguna Presa Charlie from Bravo, across the open river, got shot by MGs behind cover, and then asked for medics -- I need to hush up and learn how to assault flags properly.

      The two of you are talking about different things.

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      • #4
        Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

        Originally posted by E-Male View Post
        There are two often heard in-game complaints about medics:
        1. they are not reviving you enough
        2. they are not killing the enemy(s) that killed you before reviving.

        I never hear these things ever. there is nothing you can do about people that are not in ts, hell yesterday I followed one arround for 2 min, Q spotting him to get ammo and he never gave it. How ever if you need more medics dont complain about it, simply address people by name and say something along the lines of " hey Zhohar, E-Male, Britt lets all switch to medic and take this hill or defend this possition" and the problem will be solved. Work with what you have available and get the job done.


        "Well Jayne, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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        • #5
          Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

          I'll chime in since I was one that was talking last night in TS about this.

          Specific example was last night Africa Harbor Conquest. We had been calling for an increase in medics because there were not enough revives going out. I have no problem with this and argue that there was not enough going on which depleted our ticket count.

          My issue that I was raising is, if I die, and you have not cleared the enemy threat, why are you reviving me in the first place. Someone said "as a meatshield". For who? The person reviving me? Or the other people behind that are still screwing around doing nothing?

          You clear the threat, you come back and revive, and then you push forward. This idea of reviving someone so that 1 second later he is shot by the same person again while the medic runs around the corner doesn't serve any purpose. Nothing has been gained.

          I'm not trying to instigate a fight because coming from PR to BC2, my perception of the "Medic" might be horribly different, and I might just be playing wrong. Logically though, explain to me why reviving someone only for that person to die seconds later might serve a bigger purpose than pushing through and clearing the threat first.


          These Things We Do... That Other's May Live

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          • #6
            Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

            Reviving as a meatshield is only useful if you have a full medic squad trying to medic train their way from one side of the map to another, or if you have a close end to the round (ex: both teams within 0-10 tickets) and you are just trying to spam revives until the other team bleeds out.



            Former TG-21st
            Swift Mobile On Target

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            • #7
              Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

              Originally posted by MacLeod View Post
              Reviving as a meatshield is only useful if you have a full medic squad trying to medic train their way from one side of the map to another, or if you have a close end to the round (ex: both teams within 0-10 tickets) and you are just trying to spam revives until the other team bleeds out.
              Ok. That can make sense and I see this logic. however last night, nowhere were those two conditions happening at this time.

              I would go around a corner, be killed by a guy, a medic would come revive, and sprint behind cover, where then I am riddled with bullets because I too am trying to find cover. Its really annoying when you're thinking "sweet, i've got 4 guys behind this rock that are about to push out and take this next strategic spot, only to time out and respawn".


              These Things We Do... That Other's May Live

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              • #8
                Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                Thankfully, meatshielding was somewhat addressed a couple patches ago when they minimized the ridiculous revive invulnerability.
                "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload



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                • #9
                  Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                  Keep in mind that my post is not intended to point a finger at anyone in particular.

                  Also keep in mind that I do not claim that all calls for medics or such commentary/recommendations/suggestions are out of line.

                  It is more a matter of the assumptions behind some comments made at some times, which needlessly target an entire class of service, and which assume too much.

                  For example, when it comes to assuming too much, the issue of not clearing the enemy before reviving. While this may at times be the case, at other times such comments are often particularly ignorant, as they assume that the medic would have complete or sufficient knowledge of the conditions.

                  And contra-wise, surly we have all experienced reviving a teammate who then helps clear the immediate threat. This shows how biased the claims and assumptions are in those who would complain. Sometimes it is VERY good to revive when under fire -- the key is you do not know in advance, so please stop with the criticisms that assume you know the inevitable outcome -- which you do not.

                  One would have to be deaf not to notice the frequently negative and sometimes outright hostile attitudes expressed in the group teamspeak.

                  I for one have had enough of such immaturity.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                    Originally posted by Britt View Post
                    Suppressive fire does not work in video games
                    This is so true, +rep for that.
                    sigpic


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                    • #11
                      Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                      It's hard for me not to agree with both sides. For one, players need to exercise good judgment and not run into a situation recklessly, expecting the revive. In general, one shouldn't run around with the mentality that they can simple just respawn back. On the other hand, a game that is as fast paced as BC2 rarely affords such opportunities.

                      I believe this is a judgement call, based on the situations and the players involved. MANY players run in and die recklessly. I am definitely guilty of that. However, some of those times are justified. When you're losing and running out of tickets, you have to make things happen. Sitting back waiting for the opportune moment to charge in or hesitating to revive is simply not going to get the job done. To give [American] football as an analogy, if you're down by double digits in the 4th, it's time to open up the offense and take some risks.


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                      • #12
                        Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                        Originally posted by Serjikal View Post
                        I'll chime in since I was one that was talking last night in TS about this.

                        I'm not trying to instigate a fight because coming from PR to BC2, my perception of the "Medic" might be horribly different, and I might just be playing wrong. Logically though, explain to me why reviving someone only for that person to die seconds later might serve a bigger purpose than pushing through and clearing the threat first.
                        Simple fact that 2 guns are better then 1. If you go down the person that shot you most likely took cover for reloading and medic is not aware of his position so goes for revive. You know exactly what direction shots came form so eliminating this contact is easier.I never complain about getting revived unless its in front of enemy armor. I am sure that no one is reviving and hoping you get shot again so he can get another 50 point for it.
                        sigpic


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                        • #13
                          Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                          Suppressive fire does not work in this video game.
                          Skud


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                          • #14
                            Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                            Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
                            Suppressive fire does not work in this video game.
                            True, it would be interesting to see the PR suppressive blur effect added to BC2.



                            Former TG-21st
                            Swift Mobile On Target

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                            • #15
                              Re: Medics Do Not Clean Up Your Mess

                              Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
                              Suppressive fire does not work in this video game.
                              +1






                              "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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