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The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

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  • The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

    Before we continue in this thread I'd like to make two things clear.

    1. We've all been guilty of this.
    2. We're not here to name any names. Period. If names start being mentioned, I'll just have the thread locked. You can give examples, you can illustrate a point, but don't drag anyone's name into your examples.

    To start, I'd like to say that one of the reasons I enjoy playing on the TG server vs other BC2 servers is because of the coordination with larger amounts of people. While I may play on a lot on other servers with small groups of friends or fellow Devils, I really enjoy being on a team with 10+ TG regulars. With this coordination also comes some really competitive gameplay and close rounds that you just don't see on most public servers.

    Unfortunately with this competition comes some unfortunate cutthroat attitudes about winning. In BC2 a lot of teamwork goes into each victory, usually. I feel that some regulars here think that because a player is not on Teamspeak with us, that he does not want to use any teamwork or give any thought to the current objective. And sometimes, this is true. We at TG should be familiar with the concept that while we can modify the game experience to some degree, we cannot change the attitudes and gameplay habits of every player that joins our server.

    If you stop thinking about TG as a ruleset and start thinking about it as a lifestyle change, I think you'll come to better appreciate what our server has to offer.

    1. Winning is not everything. Playing video games should be fun, first and foremost. I am part of TG because it's fun. If you get easily upset over losing an MCOM or two "because some pubbie" isn't playing "the objective" then maybe you need to take a break. I know it can be really frustrating to see a teammate sit and do nothing as an MCOM flashes, but that player may not be as experienced, may not be as aware, etc etc.

    2. The Objective can be accomplished in different ways. A lot of TG regulars here have very strict opinions on how each and every round should be played. To that point, it is becoming increasingly negative in the TS3 channels, almost to the point that I cringe sometimes. To quote Asch...

    Originally posted by Asch
    Objective-based Play
    Playing the objective can often times be confusing especially when killing the other team can win the game. We take a different approach in that regard. For BC2 we have two common team game modes (conquest & rush).

    On conquest the objective is to capture and defend enough flags to cause the other team bleed. This doesn't necessarily mean capturing every flag nor does it mean simply to run out and kill the other team. There is a definite assault and defend objective.

    On the rush game mode, the objective is for the assaulting team to destroy the enemy's MCOMs while the defending team is to keep the enemy away from them.

    The player should be thinking at all times whether their current actions are directly supporting these objectives or whether they are out simply for the kill.
    3. Remember your Community Expectations. Especially the parts about "Have Fun!" and "Be Patient!"

    So where am I going with this? I'd like for everyone to think back to the times before you came to TG. What did Teamwork mean to you? The word Objective? Community? Communication? I'll start.

    Back in 2005/Early 06, before I came to TG-enlightenment, I was a "pubbie." I played a lot of team oriented games, but I was mainly concerned with myself doing well. For example, while I loved winning and completing objectives in Day of Defeat Source, I also was rank 7 (out of 3000+) on my favorite server, with a very impressive Kill to Death Ratio, and I was a real terror with the K98 Sniper rifle. I was "that guy." I was a kill-whore to the MAX.

    So teamwork was "working together to win." I had never really thought of it any further than that. My team existed to complete objectives and soak up the bullets while I got 55 kills in a row.

    The same thing happened in BF2. I remember one of my proudest rounds ever was playing as a lone sniper on a 24/7 Karkand server. We were at the traditional River standoff, on the side with the trains. I got on top of a rail car and got 35 kills in a row. I even kept killing the enemy after my team had lost and been pushed off of the objective. But I didn't care - I was in the freakin' zone. Even if I was alone. My team didn't hold the objective? So what!

    Objectives, to me, before TG, were just areas to concentrate on for more kills, or points, or what have you. Sure, sometimes I would complete objectives, but generally, I really cared about myself. My team were a bunch of bullet sponges.

    Communication was practically not necessary. What did I have to say? I was more concerned with kills than the objectives, most of the time anyway. I'd play with some friends, and we'd rack up kills and have a good time, heck, sometimes we'd play objectives; But I was just as content blaring some crappy metal while Sniping on Karkand.

    Community, though, is something I did know a bit about. Ubisoft, to Red vs Blue, to even the vile 4chan. I had a lot of fun talking and sharing about games with ubisoft forums. I had a lot of online friends through Red vs Blue for years and years. I still browse areas of 4chan - Believe it or not, they have some awesome niches.

    But then again, I also use to "troll" servers for "fun" with some friends. I remember finding DOD servers with FF on so I could mow down my teammates to hear them scream. Yeah, I was that guy. I was a "pubbie."

    Was I stupid? Was I not worthy of playing on TG? Was I irredeemable?

    No. Because one day, I found TG, and I fell in love. It was like a total 180. What I thought I knew about games, communication, and teamwork, was all turned upside down!

    Everyone is using a microphone!
    Everyone likes to help the new players!
    Everyone is willing to help me out doing this or that!

    But lately on Teamspeak, I've been hearing nasty things about "pubbies." Tonight we lost both MCOMs on a stage and a TG regular said "running away from the objectives. True pubbies." Admittedly, I was upset. Earlier in the night, I heard players say things like "that stupid pubbie" and "bunch of pubbies" in such a negative tone I could hardly believe I was on a TG server.

    So, in conclusion, not everyone is going to play exactly how we want all the time. But, I've played some BC2 rounds with complete stranger "pubbies," who I've never seen before, who are awesome teamplayers. I've told some of them about our website and TS3. Maybe some of them checked us out, I don't know. But I do know that maybe, just maybe, they are looking for what we have. And the very least I can do, as someone who pays for the servers, and who plays on the server, is at least try to maintain a positive attitude, if only on the exterior. You see a "pubbie" do something good? Type out "Hey, thanks for the good revives." or "Hey man, awesome job with the ammo!"

    You see, when I was a pubbie, nobody ever said anything NICE. All they ever did was say that I was an [explicative], or a waste, etc. They never said "Hey man, come check out our Vent." or "Hey, come visit our forums sometime."

    I registered here on TG forums after a few months of playing. A TG regular encouraged me to do so after congratulating me on an awesome job playing in his squad during a round of Project Reality. Years later, 3.5 years of SM later, and a few thousand hours of games later, I like to think that I'm an alright TG player. I like Teamwork. I like Communication. And I like playing with new and interesting people. They may be strangers and some may be terrible players, but hey, I was one a few years ago too.


  • #2
    Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

    And you know what, we don't even really have to get too far into the thread title.

    If you want, you can share your story of how you were before playing at TG. Then look at how you view gaming now.

    Let's all share.


    • #3
      Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

      I first heard the word "pub" on the BF2142 TG server, I didn´t understand it at first, wasn´t everyone on this server a pub? It was a public server after all. But then it dawned on me, these guys belong to a community. And I was a pub because I didn´t belong to that community, yet.

      When I joined the BF2142 server I had only played as a lone wolf, usually as a sniper spawnkilling but that was getting old fast and this gameplay was so much more exciting, especially with a squadleader giving orders and making the squad achieve objectives that I had never been able to achieve as a lonewolf. It was not a smooth transition though, I never heard a friendly word or a suggestion to look up the website or to join, I made the effort and it payed off, I got to be part of TG and meet like-minded great players. A community always have names for those not in the community, what makes TG great is that with a little bit of effort you´ll get accepted and you will no longer be a pub.


      • #4
        Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

        I remember when TG was about upholding a higher standard of play, namely that you played the objective in whatever mode you were playing. TG is not for everyone. If all you do is sit between the crates and the enemy, if all you do is try to disarm them even if you get killed, then you are not a pubbie. If you run away from two armed crates in order to pick up some cheap kills, you are a pubbie. Armed crates take priority, not kills.

        I'm a sarcastic dick, by nature. I have a mean temper. The manner in which I called attention to their behavior was wrong, ugly, and classless and I should not have typed what I typed. I apologize. I should have said something to them in a more constructive way. I let my emotions get the better of me, and my fingers moved faster then my better nature.

        BTW, I use pubby to refer to a particular type of non-member. People who play the objective, who play a kit in a constructive fashion, who try to cap flags or blow crates, even if they're not very good are not pubbies. They are players who if this damn game had VOIP would have TG tags on in a week or so. We've got a lot of new guys here because they came around, and joined TS, but I know for a fact there are people out there who can't be bothered to join TS, but would fit in here. They're lost to us, and it's a shame. However, the fact remains that there is a certain percentage of the BFBC2 players that cannot play on a TG server. They tk for vehicles, they bunnyhop, they use racial slurs in chat, etc. I'm not putting this group I was flaming in that category per se. However I think there is a broad spectrum of thought on the TG way to play Rush mode. In my mind, defense is all about the crate. If the crate is armed, then every single member of the team who can should be heading there. If you're in a tank, or on the AA gun, or in a firefight, that's one thing. Not wanting to leave your good spot, or just plain not caring, is not, IMHO. I'm not trying to police people's playstyle. There is a lot to be said for a forward defense, bleeding the attackers long before they touch the crates. If a squad is doing that, then they should not be running back to disarm. But what I saw was people spawning in at base, and then turning their backs on an armed MCOM to farm kills.

        The killer thing is that if there was working VOIP I would have hopped into a squad with them and worked on the way to defend properly. I think that's really more the root of it. It's been years since I tried to get a serious session in on a pub server, in any game. Except due to the lack of VOIP and a proper chain of command, BC2 becomes like a pub server at times. Like when I look at a green tank and say something like "tank cover left, I'll cover right" and then notice the squadmate driving is someone not in TS. So you stop and hit L to type a message and then someone snipes you because you can't go prone while you type and your head sticks out above the rock. Then someone hops and throws C4 40 feet through the air and kills the tank.

        I know the lack of VOIP and a chain of command precludes the enforcement of strict standards of "helping the team" we had in BF2 and 2142. I am not asking for it, because I do think it's unfair to demand people with no comms or structure to play TG style. Just the simple things like kicking a camping sniper from your squad because he refused to stay with the squad is denied to us in BC2. I keep wanting this game to live up it's potential and pedigree but it's not happening. I'm used to people sitting still when crates or flags near them our in danger. But seeing someone run away from it just rubs me the wrong way.


        • #5
          Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

          Not the first time this issue has been raised -- see this related thread.

          "I grow tired of the in-game complaining about pubbies and those who do not play in the same manner as TG's advanced veterans play.

          Complaining about the team while in-game is probably futile, aggravates others, and is simply annoying.

          Almost every game now comes with whining about how people are not playing in front of the MCOMMS or some other matter.

          Give it a rest please.

          There are countless styles of play other than your own, and when you complain about those in the back of the back, you overlook many factors, the least of which is that some simply prefer to play in a fashion other than your own.

          Please think twice about complaining about pubbies (a derogatory term that should be banned for the vocabulary of a group that defines itself as mature, teamplaying communicators). Such talk reflects poorly upon an open community that educates, trains, and welcomes new members whatever their level of talent. "


          • #6
            Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

            Most clans or communities see things like this: There are Members, Pubs, Bads, and Greifers. Members are the cool kids. Pubs are welcome guests and a recruiting pool. Bads are terrible at the game and are often bullied, made fun of, laughed at and scorned. Greifers are why we have admins...

            The Maturity of our community can be measured by the amount of respect we give our members, our guests, and those much less skilled than us - or those that are equally skilled but have a playstyle that does not focus on teamwork.

            “Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough!” Benjamin Franklin


            • #7
              Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

              Hey we were all "pubbies" at one time, I remember running around with a sniper rifle in BF2 and 2142 doing pretty much nothing to help the team in any way. I grew tired of the game and stopped playing for awhile, then I played one day on the TG server and it really changed my perception of the BF games and what team play is all about.

              Now about the whole pubbie issue. I have gone from using it in a derogatory way to using it more just to identify a player without TG tags and not in team speak. In some situations I can ask "do you have some ammo?" and upon realising that the person I am asking is not on team speak I'll go "nevermind it's a pubbie", meaning I can't communicate with that player.

              If you hear someone screaming or typing something bad about "pubbies" I feel that you have a responsibility to say something. If someone goes "We are never going to win this round because the pubbies arent working towards the objective" or "We 6 are the only ones who are even trying to win", it drags down the whole team and creates a bad environment for useful team play. Just say something, "we can do it", "just concentrate on what we can do".

              Stay positive, if a fellow TG member gets mad about the "pubbies" just keep calm and say some encouraging words to him/her to get the team work going. I think some of the rage against "pubbies" is simply a way to cope with frustration.

              More hippie talk: In this community we have a great variety in personalities and beliefs, if you take issue with something someone says take it up with them, either right on the spot or maybe a PM. I'd like to think that I do this, but to be honest to myself I rarely do that. I will however try to do that more often since it worked out for me the last time I did.
              "Nemo Saltat Sobrius, Nisi Forte Insanit"


              • #8
                Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                I came to TG just a year or so after I got into gaming on the PC... I had started on BF1942, which lasted about a week or two, I was introduced to it by a friend. I liked it, and noticed, hey, there's a Beta for BF2 out! After being on PCs since '91 or so, I had never really tried to play anything on them, except for Asteroids on Win95. BF1942, BF2, my first exposure to multiplayer FPS gaming. I played a variety of servers, and gravitated toward a couple I found that really used teamwork to play, but I didn't find Tactical Gamer until BF2 was transitioning to BF2142 Beta. Actually, my son found TG first.

                I literally didn't believe it when he told me he'd found a server that enforced rules, no bunny-hopping, and enforced taking part in the CO/SL hierarchy of command. You could get KICKED if you didn't follow your SL's orders! WHAT? I started a Supporting Membership shortly thereafter, played a whole LOT of BF2142, joined the 21st when it first got started, then split off with some friends and started the 8th. I've been a big believer - and promoter - of TG ever since.

                Regarding the current topic, with people deriding pubbies, etc., in general the non-goal non-teamwork oriented folks that stop by and grab a slot on BC2 almost every night. I know we're limited by the lack of VOIP in-game, and I'm willing to believe that most non-TG players do not get into TS with us, but we need to be aware of the image we're promoting. When I was first exposed to TG, many players were very helpful in pointing out rules, offering assistance, and offering genuine encouragement to hit the TG site, learn the rules, and think about becoming a member. Frequently, you'd see LEARNTG squads in 2142. I'd be curious to see how many current members joined due to the welcome they received back in those days?

                If I came across TG today, and ran into some of the "pubbie" talk that goes on occasionally, I probably wouldn't stick around too long. I certainly wouldn't do any exploring about becoming a member!

                If they ever get VOIP working in BC2 (doubtful) and when BF3 comes out with VOIP (hopefully), we should all be aware that part of being a part of this community is showing respect to other members - as well as those who drop by and play with us.
                Last edited by thedogwarrior; 02-07-2011, 04:13 PM. Reason: changed be to believe



                • #9
                  Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                  We can debate what developers should/could do, or we could just stop using the word Pubbie in a negative way. There is absolutely nothing wrong with 99% of the non-TG population on our servers. While they may not be coordinating with us 100%, they still contribute to the team. Yeah, they're "pubbies." But what I find terrible, and unacceptable by TG-Tagged members, is giving a negative association with the term pubbie. Pubbies are just players on the server, just like you.

                  You are not better than them.
                  You are not your score in game.
                  You are not your tags in game.

                  Honestly, if I had recorded what I heard on TS3 last night and posted it here, I don't think there would be much debate at all. If non-TG players had logged onto our TS for the first time last night and heard some of the things TG-regulars were saying, I am not sure they would ever come back.

                  These people come to our server to have a good time. TG-regulars making them feel bad about themselves does not foster an environment for maturity, or fun.

                  And to be honest, when a TG-regular says things in All-chat, or on TS3, directed at "pubbies" for being "stupid" or "lame," it makes me question why that person wears tags or thinks his or her behavior is acceptable. It's all a complete downer for me. I'm on the server having fun, even when I'm losing, and all I hear is negativity. Then with every defeat, I hear people blame it on others.

                  It's a game.

                  We have rules and standards for the admins to enforce. If you see infractions, report them, find an admin on TS, or make a CAA thread about the incident. We cannot jam the "TG-way" down every player's throat by typing abusive things into chat. Rules can be enforced, and nobody is arguing that we should lax the rules at all. But it's awfully hard to make a newcomer feel welcome when people on the server talk about how he shouldn't be here.
                  Last edited by Skud; 02-07-2011, 06:18 PM. Reason: had to **hard


                  • #10
                    Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                    Treat others the way you would like to be treated.

                    While I was not in TS last night, I certainly can't hurt just to put ourselves in the shoes of a new member, and think about what they would think.

                    You never get a second chance at a first impression. If I had a bad first impression of TG, chances are I wouldn't be here. Just be mindful of what you say and do, as you would regularly.

                    If someone is violating a server rule, report them in chat. As a reminder, do NOT threaten admin action in chat. We, the admin team, will take care of that. Just submit the report.

                    I do love to see people say things like, "Hey [insert name here], watch the bunny hopping please! It's against server rules!" A broken server rule NEVER warrants ridicule.


                    • #11
                      Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                      We should all keep in mind that a large majority of "pubbies" that stumble upon our server probably don't know what the rules are, have no idea what TG is about and think they are just playing on a typical server. Cut them some slack, enlighten them to what we do here and please do it kindly.
                      "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload


                      • #12
                        Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                        Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
                        1. Winning is not everything. Playing video games should be fun, first and foremost. I am part of TG because it's fun. If you get easily upset over losing an MCOM or two "because some pubbie" isn't playing "the objective" then maybe you need to take a break. I know it can be really frustrating to see a teammate sit and do nothing as an MCOM flashes, but that player may not be as experienced, may not be as aware, etc etc.
                        Disagree with you here, slightly. There's nothing wrong with being frustrated with pubbies who don't do their job. Heck, I get frustrated with TGers on a clockwork basis.

                        The point is to be constructive with that frustration. The most ... useful advice I've ever received in 2142 has been from highly intelligent people with a short temper ... who were able to control themselves and actually teach me and get me fix my mistakes.
                        There's nothing wrong with having a temper. There's nothing wrong with being pissed off at pubbies. There's nothing wrong at being pissed off at fellow TGers.
                        But there is a lot wrong with stopping just there. Because that's self-serving and not constructive. Being angry, but controlling yourself, and actually being constructive about the situation is what builds our community. Being constructive could be as simple as "CO, mind ordering squad 2 to help us out? We're alone on flag" to actually teaching a player how to CO effectively.

                        I know I'm nitpicking, but I think this is an important point to make, even on TG. There's nothing wrong with being angry. But using that anger to fix what's wrong, to be mature and constructive about the situation is the heart of building a TG community. A blanket statement "don't get mad" doesn't feel like it's very constructive.


                        That said -- 100% with you on the rest of the post. I've felt, for a long time, that the definition of character is the way a man acts toward people he owes nothing to. Who we are, as people and as a community, is not what happens on 30-man TG teams, not what happens in full-VOIP squads filled with teamwork where everything is cherry pies and lemonade. Who we are as people is how we act in adversity, how we act toward people whom we owe nothing to.

                        100% agree with this thread, its intent, and the message.


                        • #13
                          Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                          I see what you're saying, and I agree. Using that anger to try and fix the problem can really further the playerbase. What I was addressing was how some players just let that anger continue onto TS3 and over all-chat. It's really not appropriate.

                          I really don't mind at the end of the round someone saying "Sometimes it's really frustrating when a pubbie ignores the objective."
                          I really mind mid-game outbursts like "GOD I really wish these stupid pubbies would play the objective! They're so stupid!"


                          • #14
                            Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                            Perhaps we need Bommando to come here and teach a workshop in "constructive angry" :row__572:


                            • #15
                              Re: The Derogatory use of the word "Pubbie"

                              I don't think the word "pubby" in itself, is derogatory. However it could be used in a derogatory fashion, like many words. (Like skuds example above) To me the word is just an abbreviation of "Public Player on a community/clan server". Some people just think they are better than others, and calling people names, and being disrespectful somehow feeds that. I don't really understand why that is, but I know plenty of people like that in gaming, and RL. That being said If you put on the TG tags, you promised to abide by TG Expectations and Primer these are not optional. If you can't follow them you shouldn't wear the tags.

                              Originally posted by Zhohar View Post
                              I've felt, for a long time, that the definition of character is the way a man acts toward people he owes nothing to. Who we are as people is how we act in adversity,
                              100% agree with this thread, its intent, and the message.
                              Last edited by Bear61; 02-08-2011, 11:38 AM.




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