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UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

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  • UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

    A few weeks ago I decided to go eat at a restaurant I had not eaten at in some time. It was the kind with good food and usually good service. So I got in my car and drove across town and sat down for a meal there. Now, I had worked at this restaurant years ago, and I knew the caliber of service and support to expect. The hostesses would check on you every few minutes to make sure that your iced tea was filled, you could expect everyone to be friendly, and the place would have a good, upbeat atmosphere. But imagine my surprise when I got there and discovered that the servers didn't really care, the service was lousy, and even the hostess was rather dour and came around to refill my tea once - when I was getting ready to leave. Suffice to say, it left me with a pretty bad taste in my mouth. What had happened to the good restaurant with the good feel and the friendly service?

    Last night I hopped on Server 1 for a few rounds. I'd been feeling a bit guilty that I'd not been on TG lately, and I wanted to reconnect with some people and have a good time. Now, even though I don't frequent TG as much as I did, I still remembered those core principles - teamwork, maturity, communication - and I tried to apply them as much as possible. Yet imagine my surprise when I encountered a round on a Conquest map where my team was bottled up in our UCB. Moreover, I discovered that I could not get more than 10-20 paces out of the UCB before falling prey to LMG or sniper rifle fire. I was pretty shocked and surprised when, on one instance, I spawned in the UCB, took precisely two steps forward, and encountered a sniper rifle round to the forehead. In that round I died twelve times; eleven were within easy visible distance of my spawn point at the UCB. Several were with barely five or ten seconds elapsed. And the worst thing about it: For about the first half of those, I had not fired a single shot out of the UCB - instead following the old 2142 rule and trying to clear the UCB so I could engage. The last thing I wanted was to be accused of using the supposed sanctity of the UCB as a place to engage the enemy. In the end I had to swallow back the bile and break a rule of my own and engage from within the UCB. It was clear to me that the enemy team was not going to respect that sanctity.

    Perhaps the worst part of this? There were at least three or four individuals with TG tags who were shooting into the UCB. In fact, I knew these people from my 2142. I had thought them to be people of honor and reputation. But to be engaged in UCB attacking - something that I knew was banned from the 2142 servers? Well, you can imagine how I must have felt. Surprise and shock were not the least of those feelings. I left the game at the end of it so unhappy that I could barely think straight.

    I understand that there is no explicit rule against attacking a UCB. I spoke with two admins last night for probably 20-30 minutes on the subject. I understand that the admin team seeks to have as few rules as possible. However, I have to ask myself this question: Is it within the scope of the TG code of conduct to behave in such a manner and fashion? Perhaps I am someone who believes too much in "fair play", but to me I would rather enjoy a good fight than a massacre. What happened last night was nothing short of a massacre. It was not shooting fish out of a barrel. It was not even lining the barrel with C4 and blowing the poor fish into pre-cooked filets. No, the best analogy would be taking the barrel and shooting CG rounds into it time after time.

    Let me re-ask my question. Is it within the scope of the TG Code of Conduct to behave in this manner or fashion? Is it a sign of maturity to line up with LMGs and sniper rifles (and CGs) and shoot anything that tries to leave one's base? Would it not be better for all parties to give the besieged side a chance to regroup and make a concerted attack on a point and engage there?

    I have no real good way to end this. In the case of my analogy from the beginning I stopped eating at that restaurant. I don't want to stop supporting Tactical Gamer as long as the community is upholding mature, responsible gameplay. So are these actions responsible and mature? Are they the kinds of things that we want Tactical Gamer to stand for?

    You tell me.

    One recommendation that I would put forward is this: If your team has all the flags in a Conquest map, pull back to them and set up your defenses. Let the enemy come to you and have an epic battle for those flags. Then you can end the round knowing that you gave your enemy a fair crack and it will not feel like a hollow victory. And if you lose in the process, you can still say that it was one heck of a fight.

    **

    "Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!"





  • #2
    Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

    That was a frustrating round. Good thing Gator joined our side afterwards. :)
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

      Had the same kind of issue this afternoon on a conquest map. We got beaten back within 3 minutes of the map start to our UCB. From that point on, it was just ridiculous. I got killed 6 times in the UCB before having the chance to take a single step. Died an additional 4 times before having the chance to fire a shot. While stacking wasnt an issue, I will point out that the other team was at least 10/16 TG-tag wearers. We're better than that. I'd like to see this issue be addressed as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

        I was definitely the difference there...we only lost another 14 straight rounds after that before pulling off back to back wins.

        I have to agree that I really do not understand how it could be considered okay to fire in to the UCB's unprovoked. I kept hearing the excuse "the UCB's are so close" all night tonight and I really just do not get it. BC2 gives such advantages to people with faster load times that then allowing them to spawn kill the enemy inside the UCB really seems to be taking things to a place that TG simply should not be. I cannot even count how many rounds my team lost in a row last night, but my guess would be in the 20's. We had some good players on the team and though we were a little unorganized, the advantages given by firing in to the UCB and spawn killing there were incredibly obvious. If I was a pub stopping in to play there last night looking for a mature place to play with some people who enjoy playing the game the way it is supposed to be played, I would have to say that I would not be returning. I think that is something that needs to be considered when deciding on a rule for a case such as this.

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        • #5
          Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

          Originally posted by gator skywalker View Post
          allowing them to spawn kill the enemy inside the UCB really seems to be taking things to a place that TG simply should not be ... I think that is something that needs to be considered when deciding on a rule for a case such as this.
          This! 1000 million times; this!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

            I just had the same situation occur on BC #2. Matter of fact, I stopped playing to write this as it is becoming all too common on the TG servers. The 1st game was a CQ map, the desert one with the ships in the middle, forgot the map name, but when I spawned in, low and behold the Hind was over our US base shooting up the Apache, the tanks, and etc. I tried to get to the 23MM Anti Air gun but was mowed down by the Hinds 30mm. Needless to say I spawned in again and the Hind just ripped me before I could move. Finally some one took the Hind down, but all the flags were on the enemy side snice no one could get out of the Uncap. For the next treat, the tanks and buggys came a rushing into the Uncap, not wanting to miss out on the action, ergo that is why I quit and was going to post a thread on the forums here when I saw this thread already started. In my opinion, either have no rules, since people aren't going to follow them (the pubs that is) or restrict atleast 2 servers to TG only. If they are TG only then there is a good chance everyone will follow the rules. I'm so tired of lack of mature gaming happening that I don't even bother to report it anymore. Reporting is becoming more like a full time job taking away the ability to enjoy playing the game. One other instance that happened last night on another CQ map was equally fun. Some one from the US side got into the RU uncap and took the APC and camped it in the back killing all who spawned. To make it even better, the Bradley came up and camped right inside the front main entrance to the uncap. So if the Bradely didn't kill ya the BMD did lol.

            Rodeo_01

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            • #7
              Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

              Well... Where to start?

              Rodeo.. There is a HUGE difference here.. You are talking about people entering the spawn and and killing.. Vortex is talking about people shooting into the spawn area.. You don't think there is a difference in this two scenarios? You didn't think for a split second that one of those things are permitted within the rules today and the other one isn't? You didn't think that the OP wanted to bring up a questioning about a rule change here not talk about some pubbies breaking the rules on our server?

              What will TG be if we lock the servers down and only let TG players play on them? Do you think what we have enough members and that we should stop letting people sign up for the web page to? If someone thinking like you had done this a couple of years ago how many member would TG have? Would you ever played at a TG server or with a TG member or would anyone playing here today ever have found this place?

              The fact that you wont report offenders I really can't understand. You say you want to play on a mature server with mature players but you do not want to lift a finger for that to happen. Let me guess, it's everyone else responsibility to make sure you have a good time here at TG. Or am I wrong?

              I simply can't understand how you were thinking when you wrote that post..
              Nubhar

              - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                Just for the record, Rodeo, that is a Conq map and the instant the tanks/buggies went into UCB they violated the rule. Presently it is do-not-enter. Firing into it seems ok (which I disagree with) but if they enter then they are clearly in the wrong.

                With that said, that same map yesterday we had a pair of yahoos who were having a grand ol' time. They would hop in the Apache, tear up the field and when they were about to die, fly over our UCB, bail out, get in the Hind. Once the Hind got tore up they flew to their UCB, bailed and got into the respawned Apache.

                Sure we could've broken the chain by actually using our Hind but of the TGers on (Me and one other) neither could fly worth a spit and apparently noone else on the team could, either.
                "...the rules aren't there to enumerate what is always correct but what is always wrong..."

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                • #9
                  Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                  Greyed, with that scenario, I'd suggest breaking the chain anyway, regardless of how horrendous your flying skills are. Even taking off and crashing 10 seconds later would keep them from abusing the rules as such.

                  And Rodeo, while what Abel said was a bit harsh, technically, he's right. Shooting into the UCB from outside is, at current, within the rules. Entering the UCB and tearing it up isnt. Also, locking down the servers for TG-only play would simply result in the servers being empty or so low populated that it would be boring 90% of the time. Having an open public server is the way to go. After all, I'd bet that you first experienced TG on an open server.

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                  • #10
                    Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                    Not going to comment about the difference between spawn camping and shooting the enemy main as this has been covered by Abel and Greyed all ready here.

                    I must symphasize with Rodeo_01 though. Lately when playing BC2 it has been more of rule than a annoyance to have people entering the UCB's. Almost every round I've had to type out something on the lines "Don't enter UCB/main, it's against the rules on the server". Of course I've reported them to admins as well if someone is around TS or something.

                    The whole reporting thing is damn hard game wise. You get killed on your UCB. The name of the offender flashes briefly on your screen. While dead you can't confirm the name from the score board. Spawn back in rinse and repeat a couple of times to get it right before reporting. In the end you have used most of the round for this. I learnd a bit and now keep fraps open all the time get those screen shots... It just takes the fun out if most of your gaming times goes to this.

                    My symphaties and thanks to the admins who do this all the time.:icon14:
                    [S7]Hablos
                    Proud to have been part of the 101st Siege Corps of Engineers

                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                      There are several maps that because of how open they are snipers frequently shoot from the UCB. I give a warning telling them that they are fair game if they shoot at me from the UCB, then I sneak up there and knife them. I don't like going into the UCB but I think there's a larger problem with people firing from it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                        Originally posted by Hablos View Post
                        The whole reporting thing is damn hard game wise. You get killed on your UCB. The name of the offender flashes briefly on your screen. While dead you can't confirm the name from the score board.
                        Sure you can. Remember, DICE is stupid when it comes to UI. Well, that and the fact that the UI in BC2 is pooched. No, you can't press TAB when dead to get to the scoreboard. You can, however, press ESC when dead to get to the scoreboard... :D
                        "...the rules aren't there to enumerate what is always correct but what is always wrong..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                          Originally posted by Battledragun View Post
                          There are several maps that because of how open they are snipers frequently shoot from the UCB. I give a warning telling them that they are fair game if they shoot at me from the UCB, then I sneak up there and knife them. I don't like going into the UCB but I think there's a larger problem with people firing from it.
                          Just remember that you are the one breaking the rule and if other people here at TG see you doing this on the server you will be reported.. I can't speak for the rest of the community but I wouldn't hesitate to report you.
                          Nubhar

                          - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                            Well, I'd call that a grey area simply because there is precedent from other games which says it is allowed.

                            BF2142's UCB rule states you cannot fire into the UCB unless fired upon. It also says that recon may enter for the purpose of taking out assets.

                            Now while not strictly the same the general idea is that if you commit hostile action from your UCB you forfeit your protection in the UCB.
                            "...the rules aren't there to enumerate what is always correct but what is always wrong..."

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                            • #15
                              Re: UCB attacking in Conquest maps... an issue

                              The rule for bc2 is simple. stay out of the ucb.

                              I would however suggest a change now that the sm scripts are working.

                              Server 1. rush - no ucb restrictions due to the way the game works.

                              server 2. conquest - UCB rules similar to 2142.

                              As it is now, server 2 is full of non sms and very few admins.

                              “Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough!” Benjamin Franklin

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