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  • Mines and the UCB

    Yesterday, the subject of anti-tank mines and the UCB preciptated a very vigorous chat discussion between several players. One player was killed by mines when exiting the UCB and asked the other to not put mines near the exit to the UCB. Naturally, the player who placed the mines saw nothing wrong with the placement.

    Now, I have seen many players, both TG and non-TG, mine the exits to the UCB, and have myself been a victim of this tactic. I replied to both that I did not think it was illegal as long as they were outside the UCB, but that they should take it to the forums. Personnally, I very seldom use mines (I prefer the RPG or CG so I can engage armor at range), but since no one has posted about it yet, I thought I would do so.

    QUESTION: Do we have a rule about placing mines too close to the UCB or is it fair game as long as they are outside the UCB proper?

    My opinion: Unless we change the other rules about the UCB, it is fair game as long as they are outside the UCB proper. Why should it be legal to kill a vehicle with an RPG after it leaves the base, but not with a mine?

    In addition, there are effective countermeasures that can be employed when leaving the base as long as you don't just go rushing out of the UCB. Mines are usually visible (if you are looking), Motion Sensors detect them (and C4) and, once detected, they are easily detonated with the vehicle weapons. If you are crossing water, a few shots ahead of your path will clear any mines placed under water.

    The bottom line is, while you may still miss a few mines and be killed by them, that is why they are in the game.

  • #2
    Re: Mines and the UCB

    I see it as a perfectly valid tactic. I mean what would we do? "You must not place AT mines within 50 yards of the out boundary of the UCB, punishable by death! Not 40 yards, not 49 yards, but 50!" Ive been killed by this a few times and i see nothing wrong with it


    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato
    "Whiskey, yet again, will have my babies." -TheSkudDestroyer


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    • #3
      Re: Mines and the UCB

      I think this comes down more along the lines of TG morals more than rules. While it is legal to put mines outside of the UCB, it is not very TG to do so and does not support objective based play.

      Originally posted by asch View Post
      Objective-based Play
      Playing the objective can often times be confusing especially when killing the other team can win the game. We take a different approach in that regard. For BC2 we have two common team game modes (conquest & rush).

      On conquest the objective is to capture and defend enough flags to cause the other team bleed. This doesn't necessarily mean capturing every flag nor does it mean simply to run out and kill the other team. There is a definite assault and defend objective.

      On the rush game mode, the objective is for the assaulting team to destroy the enemy's MCOMs while the defending team is to keep the enemy away from them.

      The player should be thinking at all times whether their current actions are directly supporting these objectives or whether they are out simply for the kill.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mines and the UCB

        This seems fairly simple to me.

        The fact that there was discussion in game and now a post on the forums is enough to warrant not doing it. Ignoring the post above (as I disagree with it) your time would be spent better else where capping flags or killing objectives, not placing mines at someones UCB. You run from flag to flag, clear enemies, cap the flag and move to the next. No need to be anywhere near someones UCB unless people from their team are engaging you when you are not near their main.

        Also, in my opinion there needs to be less of 'what can I get away with?' (I'm not saying thats what this thread is) and more of 'how can I have fun and make the same experience for others?'. If you ask yourself this each time something comes up it should be fairly simple to decipher what is good to go and what's not.

        Cheers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mines and the UCB

          Isn't the primary objective of conquest and when defending on rush to reduce the enemies tickets to zero? Yes the objectives can play a role in this, but doesn't this part of Asch's post...

          The player should be thinking at all times whether their current actions are directly supporting these objectives or whether they are out simply for the kill.
          ...apply to armor that doesn't advance on an objective but sits outside it and fire on infantry pretty much doing it just to get kills? Except when said armor is attacking on rush and dealing damage directly to the MCOMS that is.

          I'm not really against armor camping outside an objective (I'm actually for it) I'm just playing DA here as I find it odd that someone would even question the use of mines OUTSIDE the UCB, when firing rockets INTO it at will is not called into question.

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          • #6
            Re: Mines and the UCB

            I see so many people pushing the limits to win at any cost. Issue after issue seems to be coming up and while there are no rules against it, it is IMO against the spirit of TG. I am really concerned about the fact that we keep having discussions about this kind of stuff. Perhaps it is just a different attitude for this game than I have experienced in other games with TG but the old TG feeling of friendship, maturity, and respect sure seems to be lacking.
            Battlefield Samurai 'Banzaaaiii!!!

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            • #7
              Re: Mines and the UCB

              Originally posted by Harlequin View Post
              I'm not really against armor camping outside an objective (I'm actually for it) I'm just playing DA here as I find it odd that someone would even question the use of mines OUTSIDE the UCB, when firing rockets INTO it at will is not called into question.
              I'm actually not for firing or engaging anyone in UCB, unless they are engaging you from their main. I'm all for engaging anyone that is shooting out of main and then wants to claim 'they shot me in our UCB'. I'm for engaging THOSE individuals (IE those shooting out of main) and NO ONE else. If they are not shooting, calling mortars or spotting, don't engage them. The TG server runs under very similar rules on the PR server (although not in the rules... but there was a thread about it a few weeks back).

              The PR topic stated something along the lines of: you are not allowed to attack any UCB, unless they are spotting or shooting out of main and only then can you engage those few shooting or spotting out of main. The spotting one might be a big stretched for BC2 as the game play is A LOT faster, but I think overall the principal is the same.

              Cheers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mines and the UCB

                Originally posted by [tR]Greasy_mullet View Post
                I see so many people pushing the limits to win at any cost. Issue after issue seems to be coming up and while there are no rules against it, it is IMO against the spirit of TG. I am really concerned about the fact that we keep having discussions about this kind of stuff. Perhaps it is just a different attitude for this game than I have experienced in other games with TG but the old TG feeling of friendship, maturity, and respect sure seems to be lacking.
                *golf clap*
                I couldnt fathom being an admin for this game. Betcha W6 is drinking more than usual.

                I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                J.F.C. Fuller

                Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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                • #9
                  Re: Mines and the UCB

                  As I was the person that called out the non- TG player, I will respond. First off, the circumstances surrounding the incident were only known to me and the other player. What this player was doing was really stretching the spirit of what is not and is allowed . This was very much in the gray. As far as I can tell , the mines were placed right at the entrance or just outside it. I asked this player not to place mines directly in front of the entrance to deployment. This player obviously didn't care for my request and in the next game jumped in my squad and kept firing smoke grenades at me. That behavior told me everything I needed to know about this player's attitude. Personally, I don't think what this player was doing added to game play on the server. Others may disagree. I think next time I will just ask an admin for input and leave it at that.

                  Also, I beg to differ about being able to easily see mines. The mines have proximity detonators and due not require contact to explode. Well placed mines out of the view of the vehicle driver can still be effective.

                  Helm AB
                  "Press the red shiny button"~Vortex
                  "I may give out, but I'll never give in." ~ Lou Bond "To the Establishment"

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                  • #10
                    Re: Mines and the UCB

                    Originally posted by HiTestFest View Post
                    *golf clap*
                    I couldnt fathom being an admin for this game. Betcha W6 is drinking more than usual.
                    *sigh* He is. We all are.

                    Originally posted by ArmoredBear View Post
                    As I was the person that called out the non- TG player, I will respond. First off, the circumstances surrounding the incident were only known to me and the other player. What this player was doing was really stretching the spirit of what is not and is allowed . This was very much in the gray. As far as I can tell , the mines were placed right at the entrance or just outside it. I asked this player not to place mines directly in front of the entrance to deployment. This player obviously didn't care for my request and in the next game jumped in my squad and kept firing smoke grenades at me. That behavior told me everything I needed to know about this player's attitude. Personally, I don't think what this player was doing added to game play on the server. Others may disagree. I think next time I will just ask an admin for input and leave it at that.

                    Also, I beg to differ about being able to easily see mines. The mines have proximity detonators and due not require contact to explode. Well placed mines out of the view of the vehicle driver can still be effective.

                    Helm AB
                    You would be right to question this kind of action. As Asch has said, we have a lot of stuff that isn't AGAINST the rules, but is against the spirit of TG. This sort of action falls there. Here's something that DOES break the rules: firing smoke grenades at someone because they asked you to stop doing something. Just don't go there. If I had been there I would have taken action.

                    Here's what it comes down to, if you feel that you have to place mines at the entrance to the UCB then I would question whether TG is the right place for you. This is not how we want to play the game.


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                    • #11
                      Re: Mines and the UCB

                      This constant nitpicking of what's right and what's wrong is why I simply uninstalled the game. :P

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mines and the UCB

                        It was my understanding that the UCB rules had been relaxed in Rush mode. It is legal to steal armor and choppers, and we have regularly have the defending force killing as many as possible when the MCOMs are blown and the objectives move.

                        I don't know exactly what happened in this case, but this doesn't seem like a big deal to me in general. There are counters to mines, you just need to be aware they are there and deal with them.
                        sigpic

                        **

                        "Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!"


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                        • #13
                          Re: Mines and the UCB

                          Wait a second. You guys think this isn't very "TG"?

                          Yet firing into the UCB is fine?

                          Are you KIDDING me?

                          The mines are in plain sight. If there are no "safe zones" and you should "expect to be in danger the moment you spawn" (From the firing into ucb thread), how is placing mines OUTSIDE of the base in anyway against the spirit of TG any worse than firing into the UCB?

                          Also, do not bring his future actions into this debate. He obviously has some problems and needs to be kicked and or banned for the smoke behavior, but that has no barring on this discussion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mines and the UCB

                            Originally posted by zebra.actual View Post
                            This seems fairly simple to me.

                            ... Also, in my opinion there needs to be less of 'what can I get away with?'
                            This...

                            Originally posted by [tR]Greasy_mullet View Post
                            ...the old TG feeling of friendship...seems to be lacking.
                            ...this

                            Originally posted by HiTestFest View Post
                            W6 is drinking more than usual.
                            ...definitely this

                            Originally posted by Gill View Post
                            This constant nitpicking of what's right and what's wrong is why I simply uninstalled the game. :P
                            ...and thiiiiiiis close to this. :icon_lol:







                            Popquiz: WHY is it forbidden to enter into the UCB?

                            ...

                            Anyone?

                            ...

                            <crickets>


                            Last edited by WhiskeySix; 05-17-2010, 12:10 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mines and the UCB

                              Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post


                              Popquiz: WHY is it forbidden to fire into the UCB?

                              ...

                              Anyone?

                              ...

                              <crickets>
                              Errr...Trick question?

                              Originally posted by WhiskeySix
                              - The current rule ONLY prohibits physically ENTERING the UCB. Unlike other games (PR, 2142, etc.) there are NO "safe" areas on the BC2 battlefield! Players should expect to be shot-at at all times - please plan accordingly.

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