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  • Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

    First; due to a few complaints and talking with a few admins on the topic I have decided to delete my earlier thread and create a new one towards helping this issue.

    Alright, as these arguments are getting us nowhere on this issue I propose that we see what we can do to solve this issue. I for one, do not think of it as much of a concern and I personally feel that nothing needs to be done but others do and here you can voice what you think would be best.

    And example from Zhohar in another thread:

    Gents -- let's get back to being constructive. This thread is about imbalanced teams -- let's discuss how we can solve that.

    Would a randomize of teams after each map work? With a 2-minute round-start timer, there would be enough time to join the right TS channel, form squads, and get a strategy going. With keybinds to switch between channels, this would be even easier.

    How about a forced randomize after every 4 rounds?

    Or, even better, have auto-balance disabled every 4th round, to allow well-meaning people to join the losing side?
    Might I remind you that we are a great community with the best BFBC2 servers around to be proud of. If the first impression for potential new members is seeing 5 pages of people arguing about teamstacking, then it is probably not going to make them want to come back any time soon.

    That being said, here is a very important post from Asch in the Project Reality section about this same issue which I think it would help everyone to read.

    These threads are not helping and only drag on the community / morale. If you're thinking about starting one of these threads here is what you should be asking yourself...

    A) Have you participated in an AAR about the event in question? If not then do so. We'll be able to identify areas where a team was lacking or made a tactical mistake. There is a lot to learn from these types of threads that will have a longer lasting effect to the increased quality of rounds.

    If you're not participating in these then you don't get to complain.

    B) Were you (or have you been) participating in the learn TG/SL squads? If not then do so. If you did, what is there to learn from it and was it documented in an AAR?

    If you're not stepping up to lead then you don't get to complain.
    If you're leaving these squads then you don't get to complain.


    If you're not trying to make things better by working with others in the community then you don't get to complain.


    Now... if you're working hard on the aforementioned items then make a post in the contact-an-admin (CAA) forum to discuss it with the admin team. Do not start a new public thread. Point the admin to the AAR thread about the round in question and explain to them why you think there is legitimate stacking.

    If the community cannot come together to work on these things then the effort is already lost. Don't let it come to that.
    I for one did not help with this issue in my earlier slightly frank thread and I am sorry for that, but we can move on.

    Notice: this thread is for constructive ideas not arguing. If you wish to do so, go somewhere else.
    30
    No, Keep the server the same.
    33.33%
    10
    Yes, change something about the server.
    66.67%
    20



    Former TG-21st
    Swift Mobile On Target

  • #2
    Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

    The current "tweak":
    randomization every 3-4 rounds*

    I don't see any other way of making this issue of going away

    self policing and espousal of what we should do is a good and noble policy but take a look outside: we have police for a reason, we have a justice system, etc
    The admins do a great job when they're on, but when they're off, things devolve into chaos and threads such as this that pop up into this forum


    *It's not a cure-all solution
    Randomization will sadly have unintended consequences for others in our community
    Do take note that this type of server may not be possible as there is no such code for it ...yet

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

      One solution is to have more TG-players, If we could fill up the servers then it wouldn´t be such an issue. Lately there´s been less and less players I recognise in the timeslot I play, makes me sad. A year ago I could play 2142 every night and the same players would always be on. That was fun.
      sigpic


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      • #4
        Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

        Teamstacking accusations can NEVER be solved


        Teaching people to better cope with losses can be done on the other hand

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        • #5
          Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

          I agree that randomizing every few rounds should be given a try. Players on the team with a losing streak will be more likely to stick it out if a mix-up is on it's way rather than bail. It will also force groups out of their element and get them to run with different players for a change. Any other solution not only has already been brought up multiple times in the gazillion stacking threads since launch, but also requires a concerted effort by we the members and lets face it, it just doesn't happen for the most part.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

            Not joining off Friends lists would be a start.

            I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

            Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
            J.F.C. Fuller

            Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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            • #7
              Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

              I can't do it so, Darth, could you add a poll to this thread? The question I'm curious about is: How many major losses in a row frustrate you enough to want to reshuffle teams, or leave the server?

              I'm talking about 50+ ticket differences on conquest maps and rush when you're the defender, or as an attacker on a rush map, failing to get past the first pair of MCOMs.




              Who needs a life when you can have a heavy bolter?
              --BlackMirror
              <23:03:38> "|TG|Smachin<BF Admin>" was kicked from the server by "|TG-70th| Zhohar" (UNDERAGE ban.)
              Anything over $600, and it would be pointless to try and reason with Grandma
              --Blackraven93

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                Originally posted by Lyramion View Post
                Teamstacking accusations can NEVER be solved


                Teaching people to better cope with losses can be done on the other hand
                This is personally the way I feel about the issue.

                I added a poll, but unfortunately it missed all of the topics that cheburash asked for, sorry.
                Last edited by MacLeod; 05-30-2010, 10:30 AM.



                Former TG-21st
                Swift Mobile On Target

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                  Originally posted by Lyramion View Post
                  Teamstacking accusations can NEVER be solved


                  Teaching people to better cope with losses can be done on the other hand
                  Sorry, no offence Lyramion, but that's not the whole story and basically means teaching people to put up with something because it suits others.

                  You can teach people to value a balanced game whilst still providing them with a challenge.
                  You can teach people to value the experience of other players on the server rather than continue to happily pound a struggling team.
                  You can teach to people who offer platitudes like 'man up' to 'man up' themselves and actually help the situation rather than accuse people of whining.
                  You can teach people to actually admit that at times the teams can clearly get a bit one sided instead of pretending something, which is blatantly obvious, doesn't exist.
                  You can teach people that when this is an issue, however rarely, it does harm to our standing as a community and could conceivably jeopardise the staying power of the title.
                  You can teach people to treat each other with a little more respect in game and on the forums when a fellow community member raises a concern.
                  You can teach people who quote the PRIMER to others to actually read it and understand it first.

                  I play several titles at TG inlcuding PR, BC2 and a bit of 2142 back in the day. This has been an issue in all of them. It is a team game where people can choose which team they join, many will perhaps join the perceived 'better' team.

                  Why are people so defensive about this issue, it is blatantly obvious that any team game can get one sided, so let's focus on treating each other with a bit more respect and working together to solve a problem that many are concerned about. If someone asks for help treat it as a compliment, don't deride them publicly, vice versa when asking for help do it in a calm manner and make sure you are doing your best. We are still dealing with this issue every day in PR, why should this game be any different.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                    How about letting the admins decide when a the teams are unbalanced? An admin could switch players around to achieve balance. Can an admin even move players from one team to another?
                    sigpic


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                    • #11
                      Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                      Originally posted by general_alvin View Post
                      How about letting the admins decide when a the teams are unbalanced? An admin could switch players around to achieve balance. Can an admin even move players from one team to another?
                      I feel that if we create something to fix this, it should be automated. I do not even know if this is possible for the admins to do and if so, it would probably take a lot of time and we would end up with admins doing nothing but fixing balance for hours on end.



                      Former TG-21st
                      Swift Mobile On Target

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                      • #12
                        Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                        Originally posted by Darth_Napoleon View Post
                        I feel that if we create something to fix this, it should be automated. I do not even know if this is possible for the admins to do and if so, it would probably take a lot of time and we would end up with admins doing nothing but fixing balance for hours on end.
                        There is also often not any admins on at all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                          As some of you may have noticed, I am one of the people that often points this out in game. I have limited my comments about it lately because I have noticed a couple of things some of which others have pointed out already:

                          1. On Conquest, load times can literally make or break a game. I am sitting there waiting for a map to load still and someone says, "They already took B." Once they get that flag, it takes tons of tickets to get them off of the flag and the game is over. So I agree with a timer to start, but 2 minutes is too long. One minute or thirty seconds would be enough to balance it out, allow time for nature's call for you to pay your tax to the porcelain god, or grab a beverage.

                          2. Be more conscious TG members. I am normally the one complaining about this in chat, but I have tried to limit this lately. After a round, I take in to account how many tickets we lose by and if it is overwhelming for two or three games, I usually make a request for a evening teams. We are TGers need to be aware of this and switch appropriately as well. Zhohar and Badger are two folks who I have noticed that will switch every few games if teams are uneven to make things more enjoyable.

                          3. Teach tactics in game and lead by example. I am no master of tactics, but I know the basics. If I notice everyone is sitting back way behind the mcoms, I move up to try and show them what to do. If no one is attacking, I load up some smoke and give a nice smoke screen to the attackers hoping they will go through. If no one is spotting is spotting, I remind people to spot before shooting. The key thing is that you must type these directions, too, because EA cannot figure out how to fix VOIP.

                          4. VOIP will fix this if and when it is fixed. My guess is that it will not because they will forget about this game once 1943 comes out for PC. If not, then maybe we can have squads separated in Teamspeak so that you are only talking to your squad instead of the whole team.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                            They may not be in game, but they can be reached easily.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Bringing the Community together; How we can solve Teamstacking

                              Originally posted by Darth_Napoleon View Post
                              I feel that if we create something to fix this, it should be automated. I do not even know if this is possible for the admins to do and if so, it would probably take a lot of time and we would end up with admins doing nothing but fixing balance for hours on end.
                              We already have an autobalancing system in-game. I guess you could have a script moving people around according to rank to complement the existing system but I´m not even sure it´s possible to get those variables out of the server.
                              sigpic


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