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Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

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  • Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

    NOTE: I realize this should be in the Tactics sub forums but I would plead to the admins/moderators to leave this thread here to teach players some basic fundamental of Defense in Battlefield, and specifically BC2.

    If you learn anything from competitve play its that POSITION is everything. Owning key flags are not enough, you have to keep them. Want to stay versitile to the many forms of MCOM attacks - be in the right position.

    Some of my credentials:
    Played in 3 BFCL seasons -2142
    Played in 3 or more TWL seasons/ladders -2142
    Currently playing in TWL Ladder BC2 Current Rank 6th, Highest 3rd, total teams - over a 100
    Currently playing in TWL BC2 season 3 wins 1 loss
    Captain of the TG-21st

    Now for a lesson on correct positions in BC2

    Defense seems to elude alot of players here.NOTE: if this is posted anywhere else I apologize in advance but this was alot of work. I put together this short, j/k, Slide show below to illustrate why I look at my minimap with disgust so often. Then I get to read in-game chat and I get so ill I leave our server. Please keep posts here about questions for my Strats and not to shot holes or throw down what ifs. These positions for rush will counter Sneaks/ C4/ Rockets/ Carls and the good old regular Mcom arm. These positions on Conquest will ensure your victory. It is these positions that you should fight for. A friendly note: this is a basic strat, obvi different situations call for different measures, but if you own all positions as indicated then you should win regardless of skill. Now a few fun facts for our not so informed members.

    1. It is up to you to check your minimap and know where the holes in your defense are. Its then up to you to move into the correct position (where the team seems weakest)
    2. If someones in your sweet position, find another one, crowding does your team no good (bottleneck the exception
    3. Keep MCOMs physically in your sight, even if you must rotate your view around every few seconds
    4. While defending or capping a flag in conquest if you are not on cap radius (you dont here clicks and there is no small bars above minimap - you are out of position
    5. While defending an MCOM with a rifle dont be a rifles distance from the MCOM, be in shotgun range of the MCOM and shoot a rifles distance at incoming targets.



    A few fundamentals to point out

    Rush
    - If both MCOMs are not collaspible defend from on Mcom/rear
    - If one MCOMs is collaspible focus all defense on other (non - collaspible)
    - If both MCOMs are collaspible or rocketable (you know what i mean you Carls) Defend from the Front/on MCOM

    Conquest
    - If you are attacking or defending a flag (the only two things you should be doing) you must be on the cap radius, if you do not see the cap bar above your minimap please slightly adjust your position till you do (this does not mean stand in the open)

    Below are three maps. 2 conquest and 1 rush. I choose Port Valdez for Rush because it offers a few unique senarious so you can see how different positions hold different value based on your MCOM setup. The two conquest maps are the only two types BC2 has Inline and triangle. I picked White Pass and Leguna Presa as examples but this should give everyone an idea, regardless of the map, of where you should and should not be.

    Conquest - White Pass







    Rush - Port Valdez

















    Conquest - Laguna Presa



    Last edited by LordMeatwad; 06-01-2010, 02:14 AM. Reason: Wrote this while frustrated removed 2 key sentences that conveyed this was the only plan ever for these maps. Thats wrong.

  • #2
    Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

    While you might be completely right, you know as well as the rest of us that that is not going to happen on a public server.

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    • #3
      Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

      Originally posted by Feriluce View Post
      While you might be completely right, you know as well as the rest of us that that is not going to happen on a public server.
      And why is that?
      Nubhar

      - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

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      • #4
        Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

        I think you are over emphasizing the importance of proximity to the objective. Especially in conquest with the current low bleed. Some maps contain geographic positions off the objective radius that are superior to the ones on the objective radius. This is certainly a good overview though. I do agree with the importance of defense.
        |TG-12th| Namebot

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        • #5
          Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

          Originally posted by Abel View Post
          And why is that?
          Because at least half your team will not be following a strategy like that no matter what you do. There isn't really any way around that. On a server open to the public that is. In a scrim it is obviously possible to coordinate your team and use such tactics.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

            Great diagrams meatwad. I think this is tough to achieve on a public server, but I think we can "convert" many players to this style of competitive play. One major hiccup in achieving this strategic play is the many new players who threw a TG tag in front of their name and only desire a high K/D ratio. But good info overall.

            ~seriousturtle
            TG21 Seriousturtle

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

              Ok Feriluce - very weak argument please refer to 1. of my fun facts and realize that one individual can make a difference esp when there is only 16 to a side. Meaning one man can sometimes cover a flank by themselve esp if they realize no one else is there. Also in 2142 with 32 players organization and position where alot more complicated and TG made it work night after night. SL are a big part of that admittedly

              @Namebot - if 5 of your teammates are on the cap raduis - the opposing team will not be able to move the cap bar. I think this is most peoples main mistake and the first lesson you learn in competitve play. Also for Rush, proximity to objective stops arms and C4 runs. Bleed is slow yes, but how often has your team one when they dont own 2 of 3 flags. Once maybe.
              Last edited by LordMeatwad; 05-31-2010, 09:56 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                All we need now is for someone to apply the glue to this thread... hint hint


                "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato
                "Whiskey, yet again, will have my babies." -TheSkudDestroyer


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                • #9
                  Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                  nice info L M ! Overhead maps ftw.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                    Good stuff Meatwad, thanks for taking the time to lay it out.

                    Originally posted by Feriluce View Post
                    Because at least half your team will not be following a strategy like that no matter what you do. There isn't really any way around that. On a server open to the public that is. In a scrim it is obviously possible to coordinate your team and use such tactics.
                    In my time at TG on open servers (particularly 2142), I have seen non-TG and TG alike mold together to form stellar coordinated defense, and aggressive and well planned attacks.

                    This is TG, and I may just be an idealist when it comes to this, but if any community can get public play to this level of logic, TG can. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no. And when you see our TS channels fill up, you know that we can pull this off.

                    Yes, BC2 is a disadvantage due to lack of VoIP, but that doesn't mean that we can't come close. Perfection in all things is an asymptote; we can only get so close and eventually, moving forward in the x direction gets you only minutely closer to perfection.

                    Rationally, I know that defense coordinated enough can't occur on an open server. But what can happen, are common sense and objective minded actions that get us closer to this.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                      Your strategies are very sound, but like others are asking, how can they be implemented on a team that has more than a few members that are unwilling? I read 1. several times, but still feel it needs to be asked.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                        i guess what I mean is that you can only be acountable for you and make sure that your in the right position. I want this to be a guide to where you should be to be the most value to winning. So what I mean by 1. is that you need to know where to be and when. No one else can really do that for you. hopefully the rest will fall in line or even spawn off you. Also hopefully more people will analyze the minimap as I do and make apropriate adjustments.
                        Last edited by LordMeatwad; 06-01-2010, 12:36 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                          Originally posted by LordMeatwad View Post
                          Ok Feriluce - very weak argument please refer to 1. of my fun facts and realize that one individual can make a difference esp when there is only 16 to a side. Meaning one man can sometimes cover a flank by themselve esp if they realize no one else is there. Also in 2142 with 32 players organization and position where alot more complicated and TG made it work night after night. SL are a big part of that admittedly

                          @Namebot - if 5 of your teammates are on the cap raduis - the opposing team will not be able to move the cap bar. I think this is most peoples main mistake and the first lesson you learn in competitve play. Also for Rush, proximity to objective stops arms and C4 runs. Bleed is slow yes, but how often has your team one when they dont own 2 of 3 flags. Once maybe.
                          I wouldn't call it a weak argument. Your point 1 refers only to me, and I'm only 1/16th of a team. I cannot win the round by myself, and I can garauntee a large portion of the rest of the team wont be following that logic.

                          You also cannot compare BC2 with titles like 2142, BF2 and PR, simply because of the command structure and voip. In the BF2 and 2142 servers voip is working, there is SL's and (sometimes) a commander to lead the team. The rules futher reinforce this by forcing you to join a squad and follow orders to not get kicked.
                          In BC2 there is no command structure and the voip is not really working at all. That means that only part of the team is communicating (via TS) at any given time, and even on TS there is noone to give orders and coordinate the team as such.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                            Great post Meat. Well done.
                            sigpic


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                            • #15
                              Re: Solution to Teamstacking, C4ing, Carl Gustav/RPGing, and you losing

                              Meatwad, this is amazing - this should be a must read for any BC2 player here. I have one question though

                              Rush
                              - If both MCOMs are not collaspible defend from on Mcom/rear
                              I have seen this work in games, but I have also seen defending from the front/on work in this situation. I am just wondering what the advantage to defending from behind would be in this situation unless there is a good amount of cover available in the back.



                              Former TG-21st
                              Swift Mobile On Target

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