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A More Tactical BC2

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  • #16
    Re: A More Tactical BC2

    Originally posted by E-Male View Post
    And your comment makes me think that there is more to be done with BC2.

    We should simply revert the main server to hardcore for a week a give it a go.

    Perhaps too many are fearful of giving up all the easy tickets...
    Easy tickets are the definition of Hardcore in this game.

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    • #17
      Re: A More Tactical BC2

      There is a big problem with many FPS - itīs that when you are attacking you are at a big disadvantage. I liked how 2142 solved it with Rockets to smoke out defensive positions and the big UAVs/Spots to make static players into easy targets.

      Hardcore does create this huge problem of campers that easily kill anything passing by. There is no "advance carefully with Strategy" in BC2. If you advance careful, you advance slow. If you are slow , you are already dead. The true tactical advance in BC2 is the speed in which a Squad is able to Zerg down the Frontline, giving the defenders no time to properly coordinate.

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      • #18
        Re: A More Tactical BC2

        I only play hardcore myself and I really cannot stand non hardcore for the reasons you mentioned.

        Originally posted by Lyramion View Post
        There is a big problem with many FPS - itīs that when you are attacking you are at a big disadvantage. I liked how 2142 solved it with Rockets to smoke out defensive positions and the big UAVs/Spots to make static players into easy targets.

        Hardcore does create this huge problem of campers that easily kill anything passing by. There is no "advance carefully with Strategy" in BC2. If you advance careful, you advance slow. If you are slow , you are already dead. The true tactical advance in BC2 is the speed in which a Squad is able to Zerg down the Frontline, giving the defenders no time to properly coordinate.
        Out of all the hardcore servers i've played this has never been an issue. If you play rush sure but not many tactical players like rush.


        - -

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        • #19
          Re: A More Tactical BC2

          Want to move safely? Smoke spam, that's what they are for.

          And counter-snipers must use the semi-Auto silenced rifle for the the reduced muzzle flash.
          |TG-Irr| D_Ronin
          sigpic
          "As the storm gathers, some run from the clouds in fear...Others prepare for the rain."

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          • #20
            Re: A More Tactical BC2

            I find the arguments that moving to hardcore would some how ruin the game to be unconvincing.

            The number of sniper kits can be limited. For those that complain about snipers, there are those that note the current excess of shotgunners, so the profusion of a paticular kit is hardly an issue. Other servers do limit available kits in hardcore mode.

            Furthermore, I see no rational argument against the removal of red triangles and minimaps. They are clearly unnecessary, a crux, things that limit tactical movement, and add little to the game except higher kill rates.

            It all comes down to what kind of server do we want.

            One that maximizes kill rates and run and gun (the current version).

            Or one that makes things a little more challenging, a little less 'gamey", a little more promoting of comms and team work.

            Do we really need to know where the enemy is when we cannot see them and never did see him? This feature strikes me as beneath the values and goals of a mature gaming environment.

            Do we not wish for more consequences for getting wounded?

            Or we just want the run and gun version we have?

            Now I KNOW that some are quite happy with the way the server is, yet the issue before us is can we tweak it to enable a more challenging TG style of play.

            NOT seeing the enemy when we do not see them, having consequences for getting wounded, these things should be 'no brainers' for a mature gaming environment.
            Last edited by E-Male; 09-13-2010, 04:28 PM.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Re: A More Tactical BC2

              +rep if i could!!!


              Tactical Gamer!!!






              "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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              • #22
                Re: A More Tactical BC2

                ok, I'll try again.. We had a HC server for months and in the beginning we had some TG people playing on it on a regular basis but most of them stopped playing. The admin team decided to drop the server since it wasn't popular within TG..


                If we would change anything today I would say have Server 1 Conquest and Server 2 Rush keep the minimap but remove the 3D spotting system.
                Nubhar

                - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

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                • #23
                  Re: A More Tactical BC2

                  Originally posted by Abel View Post
                  ok, I'll try again.. We had a HC server for months and in the beginning we had some TG people playing on it on a regular basis but most of them stopped playing. The admin team decided to drop the server since it wasn't popular within TG..


                  If we would change anything today I would say have Server 1 Conquest and Server 2 Rush keep the minimap but remove the 3D spotting system.
                  Yes, I am aware that it was tried in the past. This has been pointed out more than once in this thread.

                  Nonetheless,

                  Are we so certain that the conditions are the same and the same results would ensue?

                  I find it nothing sort of incredible that most TGers would stop playing at this point just because the red dots and mini map are gone, and being wounded means you need a medic.

                  Other HC servers (indeed, many) that do these things and limit sniper rifles and other kits are very full day and night.

                  If the change and the test of the change is to be given a fair chance, it MUST be done to the main server. It must be imposed upon us just as the current conditions are imposed upon us.

                  We may get the same results, but that is mere speculation until tested.

                  Enough with the speculation about past results repeating themselves.

                  Is there any other reason for not giving this another try?
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A More Tactical BC2

                    If indeed things are customizeable as you say they are.... why not give it a shot? Great points E-Male






                    "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A More Tactical BC2

                      Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                      The number of sniper kits can be limited. For those that complain about snipers, there are those that note the current excess of shotgunners, so the profusion of a paticular kit is hardly an issue. Other servers do limit available kits in hardcore mode.
                      Restricting kit usage violates EA Online Terms and Conditions on ranked servers.

                      http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg...7696&nextlink=

                      Server Administrators are in violation of the EA Online Terms and Conditions if they enforce server rules on ranked servers that prohibit or severely limit players from using any roles, kits, weapons, vehicles, or other features of the game while playing on their server. Examples of such rules that would violate the EA Online Terms and Conditions include:

                      Preventing players from using certain vehicles such as ATV's, helicopters, or armored vehicles
                      Running knife / specific weapon / pistol-only servers
                      Preventing players from using all game assets (mortar strike, vehicles, UAV or motion sensors). If using the Infantry-only server-side option, this should be clearly stated in the game's loading screen
                      Preventing players from using certain weapons or items (such as flash bangs or C4) or enforcing a "pistol only" or "knife only" server rule
                      Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                      I find the arguments that moving to hardcore would somehow ruin the game to be unconvincing.
                      Have you played hard core mode?

                      Back when BC2 came out, TG had three servers: Conquest, Rush (there was no mixed mode) and Hardcore. At the beginning at least two of the three were full most nights. Sometimes Hardcore was full and sometimes not. After a few months, which ever server was seeded played and the other two sat idle. I could be wrong but the mixed Rush is used the most from my observations.

                      We have two servers; the admins could set one up to whatever specifications you want and leave the other one on mix Rush or Conquest.

                      Downsizing the server to 24 players was done previously and could be done again on the Hardcore. You could have five minutes between rounds, thirty second respawns and with a password (making it non-ranked) you can restrict kits and vehicles to you hearts contents.


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                      • #26
                        Re: A More Tactical BC2

                        Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                        Yes, I am aware that it was tried in the past. This has been pointed out more than once in this thread.

                        Nonetheless,

                        Are we so certain that the conditions are the same and the same results would ensue?

                        I find it nothing sort of incredible that most TGers would stop playing at this point just because the red dots and mini map are gone, and being wounded means you need a medic.

                        Other HC servers (indeed, many) that do these things and limit sniper rifles and other kits are very full day and night.

                        If the change and the test of the change is to be given a fair chance, it MUST be done to the main server. It must be imposed upon us just as the current conditions are imposed upon us.

                        We may get the same results, but that is mere speculation until tested.

                        Enough with the speculation about past results repeating themselves.

                        Is there any other reason for not giving this another try?
                        Checking the 3D spotting removal poll, it seems that the TG community is roughly split in half on what they prefer even if the results are not weighted. Keeping that in mind, this topic is only one small aspect of the difference between Hardcore and Standard. I would imagine if you polled this community on whether they would be OK with forcing Hardcore mode as the only mode they can play here at TG, they would be overwhelmingly against that. You said yourself that you know many people like the server the way it is right now and that you want to tweak it to fit a more tactical style of play. Forcing everybody to play hardcore goes far beyond "tweaking". Because we still have two servers to work with, I firmly believe the best solution is to simply keep server 1 the way it is, and make server 2 a hardcore server with the types of changes and kit restrictions you have suggested. For those that wish to play the game in its current form can remain on server 1. Those who are strongly for the transition to hardcore, tactical play can take on the duty of seeding and exploring the gameplay results of the new hardcore server. In my honest opinion, your suggestion of imposing hardcore on everybody is ridiculous and nearly insulting because you assume the way others are playing the game right now is not tactical (i.e. run and gun) and that you would know what is better for these people than they do for themselves.

                        While there are many aspects of hardcore mode that I find interesting and would like to see on our server (removal of crosshairs, 3D spotting, health regeneration just to name a few), the overall gameplay is not something I want to be a part of. Like plenty of others have already mentioned: snipers, lot's and lot's of snipers. Not only people that are specifically using the recon class with a sniper rifle, but also people who find a relatively hidden and safe place to shoot people from afar with other kits. Sure, every team can benefit from a few people playing sniper roles (read: one or two), but when this style of play dominates the game mode it becomes unbearable for me. "Why do you hate snipers so much Voodoo?" you might ask. Sniping, by definition, means you are typically playing far away from the objectives whether that means capturing/defending Flags on conquest or attacking/defending M-COMs on rush. This is a terrible habit to get into as everybody should be playing BC2 with the objectives in mind. People who sit back and do not play with the objectives as their first priority are hurting their team. Also, the sniper mentality is one of being a lone wolf. They prefer to be alone in a hidden position, which means they aren't sticking with their squads and they aren't working together as a unit. Basically, the two principles that I find to be king in playing this game happen to contradict what it means to be a sniper. Additionally, hardcore mode removes the one method for snipers to truly benefit their team and facilitate others which is 3D spotting.

                        The reason why hardcore mode does not make BC2 a slower and more traditionally tactical game is because it only removes some of the peripheral information that standard mode has and reduces the hitpoints players have. It does nothing to the accuracy of the weapons, the speed of your movement (the biggest factor in my opinion), the unlimited sprinting, the consequences of dying and therefore the pace of the game. Trust me when I say that BC2, hardcore or standard, will always be a run-and-gun game in your eyes. If you find that BC2 in its current form is not your preference, then I would implore you to try some of the other slower, more tactical games being played at TG such as ArmA and PR.
                        "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload



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                        • #27
                          Re: A More Tactical BC2

                          Okay, so the main point of interest is increasing the need for more tactical gameplay and reducing the spawnfest aspect?

                          Though HC squads that use teamwork may be rewarded for their efforts more than they are in Core, the settings and lower HP in HC do not, in it and of themselves, promote teamwork. What I've seen is the increase of camping more than anything.
                          The way one guy put it was, "It reminds players of their own mortality and fear/camping sets in."
                          This seems to be true, in general. A low percentage of my HC games were good experiences.

                          The teamwork you want can be found in Core mode just as likely as you find it in HC. It seems to be all down to the type of people you are playing with. Though, like you said, the set up for TS of having a big mob one channel doesn't help the squadplay.
                          More than anything, the chatter is distracting and reduces my enjoyment of the game.


                          Battlefield games that are not modded, are designed to be spawnfests. Though I've seen in some servers a change (reduction) in the spawn time.
                          So, TG could increase the spawn wait time, but you could imagine that some players would not like that.

                          I say, if it's not the easy kills of HC that you're looking for. You're best option is trying a Modified server.
                          You could start some discussions and polls on what the TG community would like to try out for settings.

                          Personally, I like the modified best. Almost all I've played on have normal HP though it says HC - On in the settings. Normal mode with deathcams, FF off and 3d spotting just gets old sometimes, but HC is a bad game mode IMO.


                          So, you could poll on longer spawn times, which settings to modify, etc. But, at the end of the day, it all comes down to who you are playing with. The clan I play regularly with plays with the same level (and lack) of teamwork in both HC and Core.

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                          • #28
                            Re: A More Tactical BC2

                            The fact that the hordcore server stopped being used is the # 1 reason I haven't BC2 in months.

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                            • #29
                              Re: A More Tactical BC2

                              Having an unranked, awesome server, is more important to me than a normal, run of the mill experience.

                              Not saying it's the solution, just voicing an opinion.

                              TGers should not need voip to have effective comms. We have EASY TO USE TS3. We're a community with a stable and reliable TS3 server! Do you know how many communities are out there that don't have that?
                              TGers should not need a triangle to tell them where to shoot. Communication and situational awareness are all that is needed.
                              TGers should not need a short spawn timer simply because that's what every other server is like.

                              At this juncture what is the incentive to play on TGs BC2 #1? It's pretty much the same as any other server. And when the admins try things with Server #2 the majority seems to default to Server 1 because it's more populated.

                              It's called seeding people. Even the most popular titles at TG do it. PR, 2142, CSS back in the day, TF2 back in the day, NS... They all require effort.

                              Let go of your precious safety blanket called "whats popular" or "server popularity" and open your mind to a more tailored experience. Will every modification be good? No, probably not. But why not try them?
                              Skud
                              Skud Rages at changes to Project Reality

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                              • #30
                                Re: A More Tactical BC2

                                For a more tactical experience stick with your squad.

                                Instead of removing the minimap, use it to make intelligent decision or plan your tactics

                                - my advice

                                As far as I'm concerned I play BC2 tactically every time. I use smoke, I sneak around, I wait for my squad to spawn if I'm last up, I push hard (run and gun) when an opening arises. These are all tactics I use alot. Further communication in the game is weak from the average TG player. Although I have been told that I talk to much, "finally figured how to mute the streaming conscious" -Anonymous - it is my communication and tactics that earns my wins.

                                The main server needs no change except the spawn timer being restored to default if it is not already. If I pursued my personal objectives I would say less rush please.

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