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Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

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  • Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

    The "wilderness" is beyond the boundaries of the attacking team's field of play for each pair of objectives.

    Whenever the last objective falls to the attackers, defenders can decide to 1.) stay and fight to the last breath or 2.) start falling back...both have their strategic advantages, but as of right now there is an extremely useful move to counter the defender's latter choice.

    I run into these outer bounds to gain an edge in penetrating the enemy's defensive line.

    If you know that the objective is going to fall and you are next to the next "map", here's what you do:

    After the last objective has fallen get near the edge of the boundary scan your surroundings and start counting...26 seconds (strange number I kno) ....GO! start running like a madman into the wild beyond...you will be halfway into the next map by then...and the map will magically open up to you...

    be careful though... my timing is based on my own speed in counting...

    I'm going to do a follow up test today to exactly time the necessary seconds....

    *EDIT

    yeah....I guess I was way off....the time it takes in between map changes and the objective blowing up is ~36 seconds subtract 10 and you get 26....

    25 if you feel lucky...
    Last edited by TheSc1entist; 02-15-2010, 09:01 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

    I Usually count to 22.. 30-10 and then +2 for safety.. Works most of the time.. I'm gonna use a watch next time I play..
    Nubhar

    - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

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    • #3
      Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

      This is the time from when the last crate is 'armed'?

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      • #4
        Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

        no...from when it's destroyed...I have a timer set on my sports watch and I can nail it pretty easily...

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        • #5
          Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

          LOL!!! Wow... counting seconds on a stopwatch to get an unopposed run into enemy territory!!? That's WAY more competitive than I'm used to :icon_lol:

          Whatever happened to the good old days of suppress and flank? :P

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          • #6
            Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the "wilderness")

            <admin hat off>


            Thinking about this a little more:

            Does this feel a little 'gamey' to you guys? I mean I love the motivation here... exploring the game and coming up with creative tactics, but... to me, as a player, this feels like it's a tactic that simply takes advantage of how the Rush game-mode was implemented... as opposed to executing a combat tactic (whatever that means)?

            (For context read #3 in this this thread.)

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            • #7
              Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

              Like everything else, it could be countered. But do we want to go this way??

              People already are miffed about losing an objective before everyone is spawned in, I'd imagine this would be quite annoying also. If all the cards fell in the right places, you could end up with the attackers being chased by the defenders instead of having to fight their way through them.

              ATM I'm leaning towards "exploit" but I've still got a hand on the fence......if you know what I mean.......

              Anyone else got a feeling on this?

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              • #8
                Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                I think it's perfectly legit as a Rush tactic.
                There's a few things at work here.
                1. If the defenders stay and take tickets by making a stronghold in the area that the attackers spawn ... great. Props to them -- if they can delay the attackers from ever reaching the next set of objectives, good job.
                2. If the defenders are too caught up in taking tickets to provide an impenetrable wall ... the attackers can exploit that. It just takes one person slipping through to blow up undefended Alpha and Bravo in seconds.

                So it's really a trade-off: can you stay up front as the defender, take tickets without spawns, *AND* still present an impenetrable wall of defense? If yes, the game is very likely yours.
                But if you cannot do either one ... it's a good idea to fall back and regroup just behind the next narrow pass where you can funnel the attackers and have an easier time putting up a solid defense to counter breakthrough.
                Or, do we send one squad to maul the enemy back lines, steal armor, take tickets, and the rest of the team presents an impenetrable wall?

                All I know, I'm looking forward to March 2nd. This will be fun.

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                • #9
                  Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                  If defenders fall back ASAP and keep eyes on both stations, this should not matter. As is defenders get too distracted by fighting in what is now the attackers spawn point. Defenders can camp the hills and rain down rockets/grenades all they want, but all it takes is one guy with C-4 to get behind them and blow the station.

                  Put it this way: if you are facing a team where timing your rush into off-limits territory would give you an advantage, you could wait till the territory opens up and still reach the MCOM station unmolested. You would just reach the undefended station a few seconds sooner.
                  Last edited by Amplitudo; 02-16-2010, 04:43 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                    Perfectly legit tactic, if the defenders can't get back in time and instead want to hang around the previous control point just to pick up a few cheap kills as the Russian spawn in, then that's their fault if they lost the next point before they get back there.


                    POE2 Developer

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                    • #11
                      Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                      let's not forget that some defenders spawn back on their own back map before the attackers can ever get in...it's not as if the attackers could always reach the objective before even the defenders had a chance to reach the same objective

                      there is this 26 seconds window of opportunity for the defenders to set up countermeasures for a small infiltrating group of attackers...

                      it only reinforces the concept of actually defending a m-com objective carefully and thoroughly...

                      this is a tactic that is meaningful if you can perfectly execute the timing to gain this tactical edge in conjunction with a defending team that does not know about this tactic...

                      In reality, I want to bring this to people's attention specifically defenders because I see M-Com stations completely undefended during these limbo periods...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                        Good discussion here. :)


                        A couple thoughts... (this is one of those gray areas, so I want to try getting my personal stance on this out clearly)

                        1) I love the idea of infiltrating enemy lines and causing havoc behind the scenes... Actually, it's almost exactly the same tactic I made a video about a couple years back. I made this video in an older version of PR, where you can only capture the 'frontline' flag. Our plan was to penetrate enemy lines and wait for the 'next' flag to open up [while the rest of our team assaulted the 'frontline' flag]. Once the frontline flag was captured, we would be in place to quickly 'domino' the next one.

                        Conceptually it's the same concept that we're talking about here. But it's a little different:


                        2) The ONLY thing that [IMO] is at odds with the primer here is this: the OP describes how to gain an advantage by knowing exactly how long you can run out of bounds [by definition where you should NOT be] before being punished for it, NOT for superior combat skills. In effect, it's how dodge the rules of the game mode and "not get caught".

                        Originally posted by Primer
                        ...the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

                        ...

                        Within Tactical Gamer, ANY activity that capitalizes on the limitations of a game to provide the advantage rather than that advantage coming from superior teamwork, strategy and tactics, is frowned upon. We all want to win when we play, but the focus at Tactical Gamer should be one of winning with some sort of dignity, honor, and skill, not because you were able to out-exploit the other team or box them into a corner built on technological weakness that gives you the advantage.


                        I know it's a subtle difference, but I hope everyone can see it.





                        btw, I think Amp is right on here:
                        Originally posted by Amplitudo View Post
                        ...Put it this way: if you are facing a team where timing your rush into off-limits territory would give you an advantage, you could wait till the territory opens up and still reach the MCOM station unmolested...
                        Last edited by WhiskeySix; 02-17-2010, 01:44 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                          ANY activity that capitalizes on the limitations of a game to provide the advantage rather than that advantage coming from superior teamwork, strategy and tactics, is frowned upon.

                          That's one of those statements that needs to be reiterated...

                          I really do see both sides of the issue at stake here and know where the higher ground is in terms of adhering to our tactical primer...I can wait until the boundary opens up.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                            Like I said, It's really hard to judge these things, because it's all shades of grey, ya know? Like, what if you jump the gun and start off towards the next area 1 second early? what about 2 seconds... or 10 or 24 second? Or in that video I made - was it "exploiting limitations of the game engine" to hide at a back flag (where no defenders could spawn), waiting for it to "unlock"? I dont' know...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Running outside the map when attacking a new map (aka the &quot;wilderness&quot;)

                              A question. If you see this as a violation (Which you have the right to do) is it because we run before the next part of the map have opened up or is it because we count to make it as efficient as possible?

                              I don't see this as a violation since the game gives us the 10 second window to run around in the gray zone before the artillery kills you. And the fact that the enemy can spawn in and set up a defense before you even are close to the crates..

                              I might be naive but for me this is the same type of tactic that whiskey show in his video..
                              Nubhar

                              - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

                              Comment

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