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  • Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

    I make three assumptions when approaching an enemy flag with a squad.

    1. The flag is actively defended by at least one player.

    2. They know I'm coming and where I am.

    3. If I stand still for longer than a second they will kill me.

    Based on these assumptions I have a method for taking any and every flag I approach.

    I check all points in the flag cap radius I know a defender could be hiding before moving in for the actual capture. If I know there are defenders around the flag but not on the radius, I ignore them. I let them come to me when they see the flag start to blink, if they respond at all. They don't know where I am on the flag, and if my squad has a motion ball out this allows us to kill them easily as they approach. Do not run an offensive squad without a Recon kit using motion balls! Capping the flag is the priority. If there are two enemy squads on the roof, I leave them. I worry about killing enemy players not within the capture radius after the flag is captured. This ensures they cannot re-spawn (on the flag) after I kill them, and it lets my team spawn on the point to assist my squad.

    If clearing a flag I know is defended by more than one player, I work with my squad to clear it. I assess the situation and determine if it is smarter to stay on the flag to ensure we keep it, or if I need to actively hunt down the enemy. Many times I see players capture a flag, run to the roof to kill a player or two, and lose the flag because they all ran out of the capture radius. I know everyone wants kills, but if we want to keep the flag someone needs to stay on the ground level.

    If I see a squad mate sprinting to clear the roof, I don't just run up after him. I take the opposite set of stairs and flank the enemy on the roof. I wince in near physical pain when I get triple kills with the 40mm because an entire squad runs up the same set of stairs. I try to be constantly aware of where my squad is and what they are doing. I fill gaps without asking. If I see everyone looking left, I look right. This applies to kits as well. Everyone in my squad running assault? I grab a medic!

    A four player squad working as a team can move onto a flag and clear it out for the capture in just a few seconds.

  • #2
    Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

    You bolded it, so I will respond:
    I will not run an offensive squad and intentionally bring a Recon along for the purpose of having motion balls.

    It is a helper, a crutch. Not a necessity.



    The rest of your post is vague. It's not really giving hints, it's not addressing key issues with player mindset, it's more than anything just recounting what you do when you cap a flag.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

      Originally posted by Celestial1 View Post
      You bolded it, so I will respond:
      I will not run an offensive squad and intentionally bring a Recon along for the purpose of having motion balls.

      It is a helper, a crutch. Not a necessity.



      The rest of your post is vague. It's not really giving hints, it's not addressing key issues with player mindset, it's more than anything just recounting what you do when you cap a flag.
      I'm not sure what you mean about addressing player mindset. I can only tell you what I do. If I'm doing it right, I lead by example. If I'm doing it wrong, someone corrects me and I adjust my play-style. I have always learned by watching other players in-game, and adding what I see work to my own inventory of skills and abilities. I figure if I learn that way, others may as well.

      As for recon balls, your statement makes little sense to me. If it helps you accomplish the objective, how is it a crutch? Will you bring an assault for ammo or a medic for heals? Or are these things just crutches?

      Recon balls assist greatly in the capturing and clearing of flags. You will hear me in TS asking for them every time I am fighting on a point.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

        While it is IMPORTANT to be able to fight effectively without the recons sensor, and taking into account that it does not show enemies that are stationary, it is nonetheless an EXTREMELY helpful tool, and has revealed hiding enemy contacts even after a flag has been declared 'clear' by those on it.

        No balls = no live map intel.

        Always have balls on your objective.




        "Cum bellum clamavit, nos respondivi..."


        "I've given everything I can... There are no heroes left in man..."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

          What I'm getting at, Amp, is that your post is merely a quip of "here's what I do" with no premise or structure. Had you stated it more along the lines of "When Attacking an objective, do this...", it would have had a clear aim of the intent of the thread. Right now it is all sorts of jumbled and not all related or clear information.
          I don't even really know what it is you do, besides that you throw recon balls and that you don't go out to kill people off of the flag until you've capped it.



          The recon balls are a crutch; they're a substitute for active communication and proper clearing technique. If you so desire to use them, that's fine. I'll never need a recon ball to clear a flag, and I'll never ask for one to be brought; if someone uses one, so be it.

          Defending is another matter. Recon balls are certainly great for defending, because it gives you the advantage of being able to concentrate your squad in one area while the motion sensor lets you know of activity in your blind spot. With 4 man squads, this is an extremely desirable feature of the sensor.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

            Originally posted by Celestial1 View Post
            What I'm getting at, Amp, is that your post is merely a quip of "here's what I do" with no premise or structure. Had you stated it more along the lines of "When Attacking an objective, do this...", it would have had a clear aim of the intent of the thread. Right now it is all sorts of jumbled and not all related or clear information.
            I don't even really know what it is you do, besides that you throw recon balls and that you don't go out to kill people off of the flag until you've capped it.
            And yet here we are discussing squad tactics when assaulting flags. If this forum is only for thesis defense style posts in which the author lays down his authoritative opinion, I will refrain from creating threads here. I just thought this thread should be here instead of the general BC2 forum.

            Originally posted by Celestial1 View Post
            The recon balls are a crutch; they're a substitute for active communication and proper clearing technique. If you so desire to use them, that's fine. I'll never need a recon ball to clear a flag, and I'll never ask for one to be brought; if someone uses one, so be it.

            Defending is another matter. Recon balls are certainly great for defending, because it gives you the advantage of being able to concentrate your squad in one area while the motion sensor lets you know of activity in your blind spot. With 4 man squads, this is an extremely desirable feature of the sensor.
            The recon ball supplements active communication and proper clearing technique. What you described on defense works exactly the same on offense. If you use it as a crutch, it is that. If you use it as a tool it is a powerful asset. There is no reason not to run with a recon anyway, they can carry shotguns and other CQC weapons just like any other class.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

              From experience, recon balls have saved my squad/team mates while attacking or defending a flag numerous times. Recon balls enhance my squad and my team to clear out flags and buildings. Recon balls enhance my teams ability to see players running around behind enemy lines attempting to flank. Recon balls enhance the teams overall effectiveness in seeing the enemy first.

              Why in the world would every squad not carry these? This is a tool implemented in the game. This tool enhances not just you but your teams ability to win the round. It is foolish to not carry recon balls.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                If you don't think recon ball are good for your team and you it's because you haven't played enough 2142 to see how powerfull and usefull the ids was and how it could change the tide of the battle. Knowing where your enemy is when he doesn't know where your are is having the upper hand.

                The more intel you have the better your decision and the more efficient you and your team will be.

                an example of that is if I turn a corner knowing where your are in the other room i'll have the total advantage, but if I have to search for you then I'll most likely die if you were already looking my way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                  I'm not implying that the forum is only for thesis posts, but simply adding structure to the thread and maybe adding a "What do you do when assaulting a flag?" question would have greatly improved the ability to understand the thread's purpose.

                  Originally posted by Amplitudo View Post
                  The recon ball supplements active communication and proper clearing technique. What you described on defense works exactly the same on offense. If you use it as a crutch, it is that. If you use it as a tool it is a powerful asset. There is no reason not to run with a recon anyway, they can carry shotguns and other CQC weapons just like any other class.
                  The recon ball replaces it. Active communication and proper clearing techniques will provide exactly what the recon ball does, but with more dead bodies. The recon ball just puts your attack on auto-pilot as you follow the blips on the radar to find the enemies.
                  What I described on defense is in regards to being able to stronghold a building and does not directly apply to offense. As defense it acts as an early warning system at which point your squad can reinforce that spot.

                  And I'd still rather have another assault or medic.

                  Originally posted by HellHarry View Post
                  If you don't think recon ball are good for your team and you it's because you haven't played enough 2142 to see how powerfull and usefull the ids was and how it could change the tide of the battle. Knowing where your enemy is when he doesn't know where your are is having the upper hand.

                  The more intel you have the better your decision and the more efficient you and your team will be.

                  an example of that is if I turn a corner knowing where your are in the other room i'll have the total advantage, but if I have to search for you then I'll most likely die if you were already looking my way.
                  "Intel" is not just this magical radar; intel is simply knowing where the enemy is.
                  I don't need a motion sensor to do that; I just need eyes.

                  Your example is easily undermined by the other player having proper defensive tactics in mind.
                  He should be watching entrances and mow you down the second your toe lays upon the door threshold.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                    I invoke the following picture, Celestial:

                    Let's say you are capturing Alpha on White Pass. It has 6 seperate means of entry. Even with all 4 squad members watching for enemies, on average each of you has to cover two entrances. If you happen to be looking the wrong way, you will be surprised and killed.

                    Now lets say you had a recon deploying recon balls onto the cap radius. All of a sudden you know EXACTLY where the enemy is coming in from and can ignore the other modes of entry and concentrate your firepower.

                    So which is more effective?

                    And it is not hard to switch it to offense. Why blunder into a room where enemies could be lurking in any corner when you can find out WHICH corner they are hidden in and enter prepared.

                    There is no way not having a recon throwing sensors is better than having one.




                    "Cum bellum clamavit, nos respondivi..."


                    "I've given everything I can... There are no heroes left in man..."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                      Like I said, defense is another matter; the white pass situation is understandable and useful (Also, while I don't know the area in particular, you can have one man covering 3 back/least expected entries during the assault and not require a recon ball; it's really just a matter of if you have it, use it where it is most advantageous).

                      When clearing (assaulting) a flag, I'd rather not. Proper clearing tactics employed by players is 15x more useful than a motion sensor. It means that the players are now relying on their own senses, keeping them locally aware.

                      There doesn't need to be a "better" option to having a recon. I can simply choose to allocate my squad kits differently, like bringing an extra assault who focuses on CQC (imo, Assaults with good cqc rifle and a sgn attachment can be effective than a Recon with any shotgun).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                        Great tips Amp, +rep.

                        I think that celestial is just sayng that more intel can be a bad thing; specifically, when it's obtained by trading off something else even more valuable - like someone who can kill bad guys :) For example, when assaulting a flag, would I rather have a M60-toting, med-bag-dropping, revive-happy medic, or an m24-carrying, pokeball-dropping recon? Obviously the former.

                        So, what's the best kit-out for the assaulting recon?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                          While part of it is that I would certainly rather have Defibs and a Med pack or another rifle over motion sensors, the recon could still bring a shotgun/All Kit rifle and tag along.
                          The other part of it is simply that those balls are supplements; not the main course. The main course will always be the person with the gun. I don't feel it's ever necessary to have that supplement, and that it can be detrimental to actually have it if it is relied on.

                          Nice to have? Sure, if you're willing to drop the extra medic/assault for it, that's your choice, go for it! But to attempt to use it to replace the intel gained from a man actually up there and shooting at them is bad practice, and more often than not is exactly what is done with the motion sensors (usually thrown in the direct radius of the flag, rather than off of the flag as an early warning system).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                            Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                            So, what's the best kit-out for the assaulting recon?
                            I would say USAS-12, G3 or any other weapon you feel comfortable with. I prefer the USAS-12 for the mobility and flanking ability it gives me. Perk wise it's really up to you what perk to use. I like the extra grenade and 12 slugs instead of 6 since it means I spend less time reloading and more time actually engaging the enemy putting a constant pressure on them.
                            Nubhar

                            - In the process, I have discovered that I can make iron bolts with my butt****.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Squad tactics - Assaulting flags

                              I think the disconnect here is the assumption that a recon kit is not effective when assaulting flags. This is wrong. A recon player packing the USAS or G3 is just as effective in CQC combat as any assault kit you can dream up. What he adds to the equation is C4 and motion balls. C4 is more effective than an RPG at killing tanks, so the recon pulls triple duty in the squad. Intel, CQC shotgun power, and anti-armor. Having another assault instead of recon does not improve the squads killing ability, and instead of adding balls and C4 you have a second unnecessary ammo crate.

                              When I run recon I use this loadout:

                              USAS-12
                              Pistol of your choice (let medic or engineer do the tracing, sometimes you need the pistol to finish off the second or third guy you can't kill with the shotgun)
                              C4
                              Extra C4 capacity
                              Extra shotgun ammo (this really makes the USAS or SAGIA deadly)



                              If the recon player's name begins with C and ends with Hooper he will clear the flag all by himself with just a pistol and motion balls.

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