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Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

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  • Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

    Defending the MCOMs is the point of Rush, and being proactive in our defense is paramount, however, can we please acknowledge the fact that with only 16 people per side (with a full server) some maps makes this a very difficult effective tactic?

    My only real point: The maps aren't large, however with only 16 people to cover even the bottle necks on most of the Rush maps, there are too many places with cover the entire area. This is compounded if not everyone is in TS and a squad or even a single person goes down this creates a hole for a squad or single person to sneak through. Yes we should all be in TS, however, we're not and even if we are, some non-TG people might not be.
    Problem 1) If that single person or squad gets through and arms A or B, there is an immediate reaction for EVERYONE to pull back and disarm. When this happens, it just creates more holes for people to slip through.
    Problem 2) Once everyone is pulled back, pushing forward becomes suicidal. Pushing forward often gets many 3-4 (1/4 of your entire team) killed and in a position where they are unrevivable and leaves 15 seconds for the attackers to reinforce and advance.

    If I'm not in TS and I type in all caps in chat: PULL BACK!!!!
    I'm not doing this because I know all and I am an awesome tactitian, it's because I've seen a squad or 3 sneaking through the right side of the map because your awesome "PUSH FORWARD" tactic, that has 1/2 of the team bunched up on the left side of the map, and more people reinforcing your position, and there is only the two non-TGers I am in a squad with defending the entire right side of the map and they have already rushed past us and are almost to the MCOMs. My point isn't to question your authortity, it's because I'm trying to stop them and don't have time to type out a full contact report, while reviving my teammates and moving to try to stop the squads moving on our last two MCOMs.....
    Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"

    Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please seek psychiatric attention.

  • #2
    Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

    Good points Catman - I saw this exact scenario play out on Ariac Harbor yesterday. We were defending and when the first set of MCOMS blew, no
    one pulled back. It worked great for awhile and I actually thought we were going to win, but apparently someone slipped through and we had no one
    back to defend.

    I do think it's important to continue pushing once you lose the MCOMS as you can do some serious ticket depletion, but at least two squads have to drop
    back and defend. I've seen Zohar and his boys take out almost half the attacking team's tickets on Valapriso before they even got close to the next
    set of MCOMS. Too bad we don't have commanders.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

      It's pretty tough. I would think with TS it's somewhat easier to coordinate defense reaction.

      I myself come from the school of thought that keeping the attackers in "react mode" by having the defenders push goes a long way in distracting the attackers from the objectives and depleting tickets. However, when a squad does slip through an arms an MCOM, it's natural for the defense to all pull back. I used to do this as well, since if you want the job to be done right, do it yourself.

      But, now, whenever I hear an MCOM armed, I take cover, pull up the minimap, and see if a decent amount of teammates are going to do something about it. If there are, I'll hold my ground and continue to pressure the attackers. If only a couple of teammates go to disarm, I'll fall back. At least with TS, we could communicate to see how many are pulling back, to avoid a mass mini-retreat.


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      • #4
        Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

        This is why we need a commander. Assign squads zones of control and maybe keep a squad in reserve to react to any breakthroughs while everyone else holds their positions. I think it'd be cool if someone stepped up and said "yo guys I'm commanding" and it'd be cooler if everyone else said "ok we'll follow you."
        aka spartan421
        Bad Company 2: Kill dudes heal bros.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

          Originally posted by PsylentStorm View Post
          It's pretty tough. I would think with TS it's somewhat easier to coordinate defense reaction.

          But, now, whenever I hear an MCOM armed, I take cover, pull up the minimap, and see if a decent amount of teammates are going to do something about it. If there are, I'll hold my ground and continue to pressure the attackers. If only a couple of teammates go to disarm, I'll fall back. At least with TS, we could communicate to see how many are pulling back, to avoid a mass mini-retreat.
          I may love you. I think too few of us check the map before automatically reacting to what is going on.
          Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"

          Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please seek psychiatric attention.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

            Originally posted by Catman1975 View Post
            I may love you. I think too few of us check the map before automatically reacting to what is going on.
            Yeah... it took a while before I found a nice solution. Too many times I fall back to see 5 guys huddled around the MCOM. On the flip side, I noticed a couple of guys falling back, so I thought ("oh they got it"), only to hear a minute later the MCOM was destroyed.


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            • #7
              Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

              Sometimes the opposite happens, an MCOM gets armed and not a soul moves on it to disarm, even when there ARE defenders near it, even one shack over. A team suffering from optics tunnel vision is so depressing.

              Originally posted by PennyFlame View Post
              This is why we need a commander. Assign squads zones of control and maybe keep a squad in reserve to react to any breakthroughs while everyone else holds their positions. I think it'd be cool if someone stepped up and said "yo guys I'm commanding" and it'd be cooler if everyone else said "ok we'll follow you."
              I would totally agree to this, as long as it wasn't someone who really likes to hear themselves talk, like we get in TS from time to time now.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

                As a general rule, pushing forward is a good idea. It keeps constant pressure on the enemy and eats tickets. It prevents the enemy from being able to AT4/RPG/Gustav the MCOM. Ultimately it puts the Attacking team on a "Defensive" status. The attacking team will focus more on trying to kill us then they will trying to kill the MCOMs. This not only delays them but it whittles thier tickets down until the game is over. The only time pushing forward fails is when we do not have recon balls covering our choke point or our "line" in front of the mcoms. It only takes one person to break through, spawn his squad, flank enemy team and kill everybody. 90% of the rush games that I play, I break through to the back of the base, spawn my squad and dual C4 the objective. The other 10%, they have recon balls covering the choke points, forcing me to change strategies.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

                  The assault/defend dynamics of Rush are really a game of extremes.

                  On one hand, you've got the absolutely horrendous terrain: the Pride Rock on Valpraiso? Who in their right mind would actually assault that in real life? This is grounds for a mutiny or a vote of non-confidence.
                  Think Port Valdez -- that narrow mouth right ahead of the 3rd set of objectives? What's going on there -- flat, open ground, no cover, no wider than 20 meters? It's like an invitation to make ground meat out of the attackers. Not even smoke can work here, because you can throw recon balls. Not even armor because the 50dmg/hit AT looks directly at this pass.

                  Yet, on the other hand -- another extreme. Spawn on anyone.
                  *ONE* single player breaks through. Out of the 16 trying, one comes out, and from that one, at least one MCOM is guaranteed to die from C4.
                  This is how the 70th takes down 90% of Laguna Presa MCOMs -- flank, spawn with C4, set 12 on MCOM, and blow it up without anyone knowing.

                  Yet another extreme -- it takes *one single sniper* bored enough to sit by the MCOM and throw balls to stop us. All that adrenaline-pumping against-the-odds sneaky flanking gone because one guy was bored enough to throw a ball every 30 seconds at an MCOM.

                  This is why, as defenders, you've *got* to push out. It's either the case that "they will AT4 the MCOM if we don't push out" or it's the case of "if we don't push out, they're not bottle-necked, and they can flank in 24 different directions."

                  Pushing out as defenders is a necessity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

                    Originally posted by Zhohar View Post
                    The assault/defend dynamics of Rush are really a game of extremes.


                    Yet, on the other hand -- another extreme. Spawn on anyone.
                    *ONE* single player breaks through. Out of the 16 trying, one comes out, and from that one, at least one MCOM is guaranteed to die from C4.
                    This is how the 70th takes down 90% of Laguna Presa MCOMs -- flank, spawn with C4, set 12 on MCOM, and blow it up without anyone knowing.


                    Yet another extreme -- it takes *one single sniper* bored enough to sit by the MCOM and throw balls to stop us. All that adrenaline-pumping against-the-odds sneaky flanking gone because one guy was bored enough to throw a ball every 30 seconds at an MCOM.

                    This is why, as defenders, you've *got* to push out. It's either the case that "they will AT4 the MCOM if we don't push out" or it's the case of "if we don't push out, they're not bottle-necked, and they can flank in 24 different directions."

                    Pushing out as defenders is a necessity.
                    I don't see how these two items I but in bold don't contradict themselves. I understand how tactically an attacker, would love to have everyone pushed out and leave the MCOMs undefended. After that first MCOM is blown, it pulls enough people back to eliminate your squads and the rest get pushed back basically on top and behind the remaining MCOM and at that point rocketing/motar striking the MCOM to oblivion becomes a matter of time.

                    I completely disagree that a single sniper can prevent one coordinated squad from taking out an MCOM. If it was you Zho, I'd imagine the second you heard the familiar beep from a recon ball you'd stop moving completely until some of your squad could spawn on you. Then you'd have them move in to flush the sniper out and take that person out, revive your fallen squad mate and before that person can respond or the rest of the pushed up team could get back to stop you, you would have the MCOM blown.

                    I agree that we can not sit back behind the objectives and allow the attackers to get to the MCOM before killing them all off. I'm saying that the entire 16 person team should not push up and leave no one back at the MCOMs. With only 16 per side maybe not even a full 4 man squad should be left back.

                    The folly with pushing forward tactic (as I have seen it) is that the call in TS to push forward is for the entire team to push forward. When I have stayed back to defend the MCOMs with another 8th or two, I am assaulted in TS with, "Come on guys we have to push forward" Then as we do push up, inevitably, we get halfway pushed up and we get notice that the MCOMs are being attacked or charges are armed.
                    Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"

                    Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please seek psychiatric attention.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tactics: Pushing forward (Rush) on defense

                      Originally posted by Catman1975 View Post
                      I completely disagree that a single sniper can prevent one coordinated squad from taking out an MCOM. If it was you Zho, I'd imagine the second you heard the familiar beep from a recon ball you'd stop moving completely until some of your squad could spawn on you. Then you'd have them move in to flush the sniper out and take that person out, revive your fallen squad mate and before that person can respond or the rest of the pushed up team could get back to stop you, you would have the MCOM blown.
                      I don't know where you come up with your tactics but when I see enemies showing up near an MCOM, I fall back. It only takes one recon ball to be on an MCOM to make players fall back. To touch on this, when there is someone covering the MCOMs with recon balls and I hear it, why would I stop? Here's a simple rule of thumb. When you stop and stay still in this game, you die. If you do not keep moving, you die. That sniper that saw you on his recon ball? He's going to be throwing grenades your way and looking for you as well as the people who are falling back because they saw you.

                      Originally posted by Catman1975 View Post
                      The folly with pushing forward tactic (as I have seen it) is that the call in TS to push forward is for the entire team to push forward. When I have stayed back to defend the MCOMs with another 8th or two, I am assaulted in TS with, "Come on guys we have to push forward" Then as we do push up, inevitably, we get halfway pushed up and we get notice that the MCOMs are being attacked or charges are armed.
                      Where's the recon balls? If you had recon balls on the MCOM then our MCOMs would not be attacked without us knowing there are enemies near them. This is not a failure in pushing forward, this is a failure in situational awareness and keeping recon balls actively covering your perimeter.

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