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  • Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

    The quote below lists some of the problems that Sledge has noticed, and I agree with them. Let's see if we can identify any other problems with each game mode and then make suggestions for a plan or bit of communication that may alleviate the problem.

    Originally Posted by SledgeHammer

    Dom: There is tons of comms needed in this mode. You have to pick out which 2 you are taking and then you need contacts called out at every chance.

    CTF: Some comms needed here. The folks defending the flag need to talk and call out as many contacts as they can. You also need the runners giving reports of what they are seeing (How many folks defending the flag, what direction they are seeing enemies headed to our flag, and so on)

    SAB: Lots of Fast comms needed. Your team needs to work as a unit and defend the bomb carrier. This makes comms a challenge because everything has to be rushed because there is a giant bullseye on the bomb carrier at all times. In mt opinion the game play has to move to fast to have great comms due to the bullseye.

    S&D: Well I don't think I even need to address this one. Everyone here knows what comms are needed for this otherwise you wouldn't be here.

    Demo: This is the same as S&D but you need someone taking charge right up front to make sure that most everyone is working 1 bomb site first. Once you destroy one your 2 or 3 minute timer is extended.

    ...snip...
    First and foremost, I think a habit that everyone should get into is peeking at the ESC map, paying close attention to friendly deployments, lines of sight and movements. This helps to keep you situationally aware and gives you a good idea what you should be doing. If you are unsure what you should be doing, don't be afraid to ask!

    The following are just tips and strategies from me, addressing problems I have seen in the past.

    DOM:

    This game mode is going to be difficult, to say the least, to make more tactical. It's just so damn fast paced which, isn't a bad thing but, it makes concise and effective comms that much more difficult, and important. I think it will be beneficial to do work on the Map Landmarks and get those beaten into everyone's heads before we work too much on this mode.

    Strat:
    I agree with Sledge that the best strategy is to take the first two flags and sit on them. If the team is a bit slow getting to B and the enemy takes it en force, I have found that sending a small squad around to the enemy first flag works. Once the small squad secures, or even starts taking the flag, the enemy will retreat from B to secure their first flag.

    Comms:
    As far as comms go, I try to be vocal in letting our team know which flag needs more defenders and calling out enemy contacts near and around the flag I am defending. I also attempt to reign in the inevitable pubbie rush to the third flag by reminding them that if we own all three flags, the enemy will start spawning in randomly and that we will most likely lose two flags because of it. I have met with limited success with this.

    CTF:

    Defense Strat:
    Whenever we play CTF, I am generally dedicated to defense and, I feel that I have gotten pretty good at it. Maybe not good, but better than average. Here is what I generally do:

    Once the round starts, I rush to our flag and set out my Jammer in a centralized location. This protects our flag area from enemy clays and blacks out the enemies UAV, when they are in range. After that, I open my map to see how many defenders are with me and what their locations are. I try to pay close attention to what their fields of view will be and attempt to position myself to cover any opening. If my fellow defenders have everything pretty well locked down and we have plenty of team mates running offense, I will patrol our defense area and try to coordinate the defenders.

    Defense Comms:
    When calling out contacts, I generally do something like this: "Enemy, left side in the buildings." or "Multiple enemies, up the middle, need help!" Contact reports should be made before engaging a target, if at all possible. This allows the defenders time to: see where the threat is coming from, know whether or not they should shift position to help, and to make sure the enemy is put down.

    If the enemy is constantly making big pushes for the flag, I am not afraid to ask a few attackers to switch roles and help on defense.

    Offense:
    Someone else will have to talk about the attacking side of things here, as I rarely play offense. But, I think it would be a good idea for the attackers, as Sledge has already said, to call contacts and report enemy strengths/weaknesses on that attackers chosen path.

    One other idea concerning attackers: If the enemy manages to get our flag and out of the area, defenders should stay put in the defense perimeter. It should fall to the attackers to find the bloody flag thief (with a call-out from the defenders on which way the flag went) and put him down. This way, the enemy doesn't have much chance to set up a forward position in our defense area.

    SAB:

    This is another tricky mode to deal with, mainly because of the horrible spawn points it uses. It's almost impossible to get any kind of organization going. But, I agree that everyone's focus should be either on the bomb carrier or defending our bomb site when we don't have the bomb. Basically, this means to be going towards one of the two icons on your HUD.

    The only thing I can think to suggest here is that, when someone picks up the bomb, they should fall back to the closest and largest concentration of friendlies as possible. The bomb carrier should be in the middle of the ad-hoc squad with a rear/flank guard in the back and attackers in the front. I feel that in this game mode, the bomb carrier should be considered the "squad leader" and his protectors should follow his/her orders without delay.

    S&D

    I'm not too sure that there is much help for this mode when there is an abundance of pubbies on the server. But, if you have any ideas on how to mitigate the pubbie problem, I am sure we will be glad to listen.

    DEM:

    Defense Strat:
    One idea that I have had, but never tried is this: Split up the team into three squads. Two roughly equal sized squads (depending on the map) that will be in close proximity to their respective bomb site. And a third, smaller squad, that will patrol between and slightly behind the bomb sites, with an eye towards the flanks. The third squad would act mainly as reinforcements when needed, and for countering enemy flanking maneuvers when not needed at a bomb site.

    Defense Coms:
    The bomb site defenders should be calling out contacts in the usual manner. They should also not be afraid to call in reinforcements if they are getting hammered on by a large group of enemies.

    Offense Strat:
    Generally, the best strat I have seen for offense is this: Someone should call out the primary target. To decide which bomb site should be the primary target, consider which site is the hardest to defend and attack the other.

    The team should then be broken into two squads. One squad of two or three players and the rest in a large squad. The small squad is sent to the secondary target in a harassing/diversionary action, while the main body hits the primary target hard and fast. If the main body fails to blow the primary target in a couple of rushes, EVERYONE should start pushing the secondary target. This generally works because of the ruckus that was made by the main body at the primary target draws off defenders from the secondary target.

    Offense Comms:
    Most of the comms on offense should be coming from the main body, describing enemy positions and enemy clays and equipment. The harassment squad should be calling out any enemy reinforcement movements to the main body and also taking care of any enemy flankers to the main body


    Well, I think that is a good place for us to start. Please feel free to comment on, discuss, or propose new and different strategies. I ask only two things in this thread: 1. Keep the discussion on topic. ie. No proper TG member should care where you got the most kills, how you knifed some guy, or anything like that. This thread is for strategy and tactics.. nothing more. Although, suggestions for kit loadouts that work well should and can be discussed. 2. Please let us know which game mode you are talking about by heading you post with the three letter designations I have used in this post. That should make it easy to look through the thread and find information more easily.

    sigpic



  • #2
    Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

    Nice job MK. Now if we can get the Community to take hold of some/all of this and give us their thoughts we can go somewhere with it. I think if everyone played by this mind set the server would be far and away the most used server out there and we could fill both servers every night. Also guys I know its a long read but trust me its worth it. We want to hear you voice and thoughts on this. We want everyones to want to play here.
    Thanks Sledge


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    • #3
      Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

      Originally posted by SledgeHammer View Post
      Nice job MK. Now if we can get the Community to take hold of some/all of this and give us their thoughts we can go somewhere with it. I think if everyone played by this mind set the server would be far and away the most used server out there and we could fill both servers every night. Also guys I know its a long read but trust me its worth it. We want to hear you voice and thoughts on this. We want everyones to want to play here.
      Thanks Sledge
      I think you both are spot on, the problem is getting the people not in TS to adhere to our strategies. I don't knw how many times I have called out " we hold A & B....don't take C because then they can random spawn". Only to have the "pubbies" take the last objective and then have all 3 of our flags turn to enemy possesion 2 minutes after because they start spawning everywhere and we are spread too thin. We know how to make it work for us.....now how do we make it work for all in the server? I hate to say it but I think I would be a serious fan of starting to bring the hammer down on more of the "lone wolfing" mentality. When you are being told how to achieve a win in a certain type of game play and do just the opposite of what everyone is telling you ....kick
      "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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      • #4
        Ugh, I replied to this last night but I guess I failed at being awake enough to hit send or something?

        Anyway, your dem three fire team strategy is exactly what I used for the first scrim. It failed, but that might have been because we ask had concrete blocks for legs :)

        Dom: one man, alone, shall cap A (or C) at the start of the round, with the rest of the team heading straight for B. He is guaranteed to control it before the enemy is anywhere near him, and the extra 1 or 2 seconds worth of points the team would get by using more bodies to cap it sooner falls far short of the value the team gets by throwing more bodies into the Bravo Meatgrinder and hopefully securing it.

        On linear dom maps (grid, as opposed to triangular ones like launch), B is key. Being many times more difficult to cap than A or C, you can't afford to lose it. So you make it even harder to cap by putting at least two thirds of your team on it. A team can't hold both A & C together, so you don't risk much by putting a skeleton defense on your outlying flag: you'll get it (or the opposite one) back with ease when you're facing a team divided in two.


        [Spartan 9]

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        • #5
          Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

          Good write up MK. Its good to be thinking about this. I think with many COD gametypes its extremely tough to get organized coms in any sort of timely manner. I know we've had this discussion elsewhere when talking about the unranked server..but things happen so fast many times there's not any time in the voip to relay what's going on. In my past life of competition in games like CS:S, COD and even BF2 using TS for coms is essential to getting the whole thing out in a concise sentence that is more than yelping incoherent blurbs out..or tossing out "bad guy over here, never mind i killed him" every three seconds, if you even have time to get it out. As far as getting the "pubbies" (lol, i hate that term) to play along. Its just a never ending battle. It all comes down to active adminning and as Ven alluded to, kicking people who want to do their own thing. I, personally, feel that it is almost more trouble than its worth for a public server. Maybe more dedicated nights with people and a passworded server. More inter TG scrims, heck, maybe even take the extra time to invite some more regular non TGers into these weekly scrims or passworded server nights. It would be a way to get some new people into the forums, TS and community too.

          As with the individual strategies, COD is very fluid. There's no set way that is going to work every time. If there's a guy on the other team that is mowing down your defenses it really changes how you should attack the map. Maybe a token force at the defending flag and keep taking the next flag with the majority of your force might be in order. This keeps you from getting pinned in. Keeping your force away from the flag taking machine...taking flags behind him.

          Domination - I agree with Balfa. Send the majority of the team to the middle or most needed flag. If the map is more triangular, keep two people back and set up clays and traps. Using coms let the majority of the team know which flag to defend based on the amount of need.

          CTF- I believe get some talented people who know the spawns, spots and have the talent to pick off approaching players. I'd keep a few people in the middle...breaking up the enemies opportunity to have a clean advance on your flag..and then on each map there are one or two ways to get to the flag..that a couple of designated "runners" can take that get them right to the flag and see if they can break one out.

          S&D: The easiest to communicate in and admin if people don't follow directions. Be sure to have adverts (this is for server in general) saying that we are not the ordinary server experience, that if they want to follow TG rules then they will have an EXTRAordinary experiance, however if they don't follow posted rules (more than just not bunnyhopping and camping spawn)

          SAB - Eh, i dunno. This game type is so fluid and fast paced. Basically, what you need to do is to keep a couple people in the middle to break off any mad dashes by the other team if they get the bomb..and the majority of the people push up past the bomb and let the bomb plant behind. You know what..in most situations the act of kicking the enemy spawn out of where the bomb is and to another side of the map will consist of killing a few people as they spawn there. OH AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, when we go to overtime to sit and hid in a corner. To me a draw is worse than a loss. I'd rather have gone for the plant and gotten killed that wait it out till time expires. Talk with your guys..head for the bomb and go for it!

          Demolition - I always like to make a full push on the hardest bombsite to attack. Maybe send one guy to the easy place. If after a couple of waves you can't get the plant..then send everyone towards the easy site and get the plant. And i always like to, while the plant is on at one site..send at least one guy to try and get the ninja plant on the other site. Important that both sides, offense and defense push the majority of the force up past the bomb..so you aren't letting the defender be able to spawn and pick off your planters or lob nades..or letting the attackers have a clean path to your key defensive assignments.



          * *

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          • #6
            Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

            Great write up MK and Po

            Ven I like the idea of kicking the pubbies that won't follow orders, but as Po says it would be a never ending battle.....is it really worth it?

            This................Maybe more dedicated nights with people and a passworded server. More inter TG scrims, heck, maybe even take the extra time to invite some more regular non TGers into these weekly scrims or passworded server nights. It would be a way to get some new people into the forums, TS and community too.
            would be a way around it.



            Only the dead have seen the end of war

            Plato

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            • #7
              Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

              Originally posted by Wookiie View Post

              Ven I like the idea of kicking the pubbies that won't follow orders, but as Po says it would be a never ending battle.....is it really worth it?
              Unfortunately in my evil and twisted mind.....yes it would be soooooooooooo worth it
              "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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              • #8
                Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

                I would love to have more scrims, Capt' Matches, etc.. But, people have to actually sign up for them. The Admin team is currently looking for ways to get more people into the forums and signing up for events but, it's an uphill battle.

                Thanks for the comments guys, lets get back on topic. :icon12:

                sigpic


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                • #9
                  Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

                  For the few games I played tonight one was DOM Crisis. Right from the start we left one or two to cap A and the rest (besides some guests) rushed B. We didn't get it at first but we managed to wrestle it away and consistently held it. At one point we had 4 or so TGers in there covering all entry points for a good amount of time. In the end victory. Good execution guys.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tactics, Strategy and Communication Discussion

                    Yeah, good games, clipper. Sorry you had ping issues. Hopefully they're sorted out!


                    [Spartan 9]

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