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  • Server changing...

    As root has informed me, the CS server will be getting new maps, and as I understand it, removal of some... Personally i dont think this to be the greatest of ideas. Yes, it's true the server does get a bit stagnant as we move through the same 4 or 5 maps (italy, prodigy, havana, aztec, office, and then random maps that come up far less often). The one thing i know these new maps will do is KILL our new player traffic. If anyone else hasn't noticed, when we go to a custom map (junglerescue) all thats left in the server is people who are regulars in our server, MAYBE one pubbie will stay and D/L the map if they really like the server, which IS a good thing. Many people just leave for a new server. Especially right now, with all the players going off into all the new releases lately our CS:S ranks are going to run very thin if we dont keep new players coming to the dark side.

  • #2
    Re: Server changing...

    Originally posted by Damage Inc.
    As root has informed me, the CS server will be getting new maps, and as I understand it, removal of some... Personally i dont think this to be the greatest of ideas. Yes, it's true the server does get a bit stagnant as we move through the same 4 or 5 maps (italy, prodigy, havana, aztec, office, and then random maps that come up far less often).
    That's the problem exactly. Everyone know the maps, what the strategies are, etc. New maps=new strategies.

    The one thing i know these new maps will do is KILL our new player traffic.
    I don't see them as linked. What we have special here is the TYPE of gameplay we espouse, not what maps we play.

    If anyone else hasn't noticed, when we go to a custom map (junglerescue) all thats left in the server is people who are regulars in our server, MAYBE one pubbie will stay and D/L the map if they really like the server, which IS a good thing.
    Then they got a great map, and will come back.

    Many people just leave for a new server.
    Good. If the gameplay doesn't keep them in line for the DL, then we aren't their thing. Server 1 is for recruitment and learning, not a free service for the CS:S public.

    Especially right now, with all the players going off into all the new releases lately our CS:S ranks are going to run very thin if we dont keep new players coming to the dark side.
    36 players in the tournament means our ranks are acceptable. They will be back, after the post-BF2-coital glow begins to fade. I've uninstalled everything except for BF2, SWAT4, and CS:S, so that's where my mind is at.

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    • #3
      Re: Server changing...

      We used to go through this on the old CS too. Too many new maps flooding the server at once really thins out the crowd. I prefer to see maps integrated slowly, like one every week or two.

      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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      • #4
        Re: Server changing...

        We have fast map downloads available. Using this system in-game downloads take under a minute to download. easily.
        Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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        • #5
          Re: Server changing...

          Although a whole bunch of new maps have been added to the server, anyone checking their facts will see that only 4 have been added to the rotation of late. For those who don't bother reading the SOP forum, they are junglerescue, penstock, menace and harvest. These were not all added together, and junglerescue has actually been removed, pending an update.

          It seems to me that some players want the same old maps, because they don't have to learn anything new, and can therefore pwn more noobs. Perhaps I'm wrong, and that comment wasn't an invitation to start a flame war if I am. Some of the maps we have in rotation are crap. Some of the new maps are very good, and very popular.

          Anyone suggesting that new maps drive players off the server is talking stuff and nonsense. As laggy as junglerescue is, I've seen a full server stay with the map change on many occasions, even with a high number of pubbies. Certainly the new maps I've added don't drive people away, as they generally don't lag. Some are even old favourites from the days of 1.6. In fact, some of the new maps draw people *to* the server, either because they were popular in 1.6, or because fragmonkeys see them and, knowing the maps like some of the dissenting voices around here, figure they can pwn some more noobs and type rank 10 seconds after their first kill, on their first visit to the server.

          New maps will not stop arriving on the server, until I run out of places to find them. As game officer, my role isn't to be on the server dealing with regulars and members who are too immature to balance the teams when they die, or who can't control their language, or who claim to know PCS when they actually don't. My role is to develop the cs part of tacticalgamer. Part of that is making sure I have an admin team in place to deal with the servers on a day to day basis. Part of it is to grow the player base, with our type of player. New maps will draw new players to the server, and if we sift through all the dirt, we will find more gold.

          As for taking 10 minutes to download, I belive anyone taking the time to read / search this forum will see that I am working on making maps available to you all to download and install prior to connecting to the server.

          Many people dislike change for one reason only - that it is change. Good or bad makes no difference. I intend the new maps I add to be a change for the better. They won't be added to the rotation overnight, and I will continue to employ the use of polls in this forum before adding maps, even though I am not required to ask your permission to add them. I ask your opinions, because contrary to popular belief on the part of some portions of the player base, I am not god. I am all for constructive discussion, and participation by the community.

          I am extremely disappointed that there has been so little feedback on the new maps, and so little in the way of links to maps being contributed. If need be I will continue to look on my own when I get the time. If the rotation list gets so big that players have to engage their brains, and think about where the best spots are on the map, then I will consider myself to have done a good job.

          The new map train is rolling. Get on board or get the hell out of the way ;)

          Root
          BFCL TF2 league admin

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          • #6
            Re: Server changing...

            well root, what you just said put me in an extremely bad mood, as you could probably tell from the way i played inferno and cbble. I don't know about this anymore...i think im done...not that anyone cares, just saying my peace in case i never come back.

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            • #7
              Re: Server changing...

              Well I'll have to see the new maps before I can comment, though I'd like to see classic maps still in rotation, trying new maps is never a bad thing. I do think due to server rules some maps may be a little one sided (i.e. italy, where your average terrorist i.e. me, get's to sit there and blow the somewhat helpless ct's away, even with decent planning and cooperation, I mean my god, but I digress). I'll certainly not knock maps before I try them. Next time I see you Devin you shalt be farted on like so much righteous holy thunder, unless we share opinions on the new maps (which I haven't played yet). If I do find said maps to be repulsive in the least however, barring a lackluster financial situation, I shall fly to ireland. Once there I'll have a pint, and then, by way of amphibious auto car, travel to a random spot in britain. This spot, in which I will surely find root on his way to work, no matter the time of day. Should I discover his whereabouts I'll run up to him and spill a thimble filled with coffee on his uniform (assuming he has one) and run off screaming and giggling back to america (though I have to say I don't like the idea of under-water spiders comming after me).

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              • #8
                Re: Server changing...

                im sorry but the above post is so confusing and weird it can't be commented on properly.
                - for the dling of maps. the majority of new players are going to be server hoppers who just wander around looking for some where fun to play for a bit. chances are they arn't going to read the motd, probaly because 99% of the servers out there say the exact same thing. chances are also rather slim that they are going to suddenly realize how good pcs is in the first 10 minutes of play, especaly on server 1 where, as commented elsewhere, control seems to be slipping. if, while they are just starting to understand, the map changes, and it starts downloading, most people would do the sensible thing and go find another server. they won't have any idea how much better how system is. they won't be used to anything but a death match server. they won't know we have fast downloads (not that ive ever seen any diffrence between fast download and otherwise). the point of this is that it takes a while for someone to adjust to the way we play and they arn't likley to bother waiting around for a map to dl when all thier previous experinces with cs servers have been identical.
                frowning takes 47 muscles, and smiling only take 17, but sitting there with a zombie like stare on your face takes 0, we have a winner.

                The fights are so bitter because the stakes are so small. -watch words of academia

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                • #9
                  Re: Server changing...

                  Originally posted by Cerevox
                  im sorry but the above post is so confusing and weird it can't be commented on properly.
                  Ok look at that comment, and read your own post again.

                  We welcome correct spelling, punctuation, grammatical correctness and proper layout at tacticalgamer.

                  Originally posted by Cerevox
                  especaly on server 1 where, as commented elsewhere, control seems to be slipping.
                  Control isn't slipping. A number of regs, members and supporting members insist on constantly pushing the rules, arguing with admins, and generally being disruprive. They will continue to be dealt appropriately, up to (and including) a perma-ban and removal from the CS forum.


                  Originally posted by Cerevox
                  the point of this is that it takes a while for someone to adjust to the way we play and they arn't likley to bother waiting around for a map to dl when all thier previous experinces with cs servers have been identical.
                  The vast majority of people on server 1 *are* looking for deathmatch. If the extended freeze time, or the fact that they have to wait a while to download a map is going to chase that kind of player off the server, all well and good.

                  The guests we get who are looking for a server like the PCS players here provide, then they will pick up on the differences pretty quickly, and are likely to stay.

                  Root
                  BFCL TF2 league admin

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                  • #10
                    Re: Server changing...

                    Not being disrespectful root, but I believe that most people AREN'T looking for a server like TG....I certainly wasn't. I was parusing servers playing cs_compound and played on the CT side for about 20 minutes before i was yelled at (by wyz, if he remembers this at all) for shooting into the hostie shack full of T's. I HATED this concept. I thought that was one of the stupidest rules possible...but then i realized that teamwork and planning was ESSENTIAL to winning and instantly fell in love. My point is that it takes time to apreciate our playstyle. You really can't expect to tell people the rules and have them go "AWESOME!!!" (although I've seen that happen when I tell people the rules). In my opinion using irregular maps to filter out people that "aren't our kind of player" really isnt the way to go about it. I think the best way to keep a healthy playerbase would be to let as many pubbers come through our server as possible, if they dont like the way we play, they can leave. Reguardless we want people to be able to get aquainted with our way of play before we pretty much say DL these maps or leave. If anyone else agrees/dissagrees with that I'd like to hear your support/arguement

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                    • #11
                      Re: Server changing...

                      How can they get aquainted by our way of play if our way of play on server 1 has essentially degenerated to barely above average? I know that before I joined TG, I never hesitated to sit through and download a map. And the kind of people who cant stand to wait 5 minutes tops, people that are THAT impatient, are less likely than others to want to play this way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Server changing...

                        Originally posted by Damage Inc.
                        In my opinion using irregular maps to filter out people that "aren't our kind of player" really isnt the way to go about it. I think the best way to keep a healthy playerbase would be to let as many pubbers come through our server as possible, if they dont like the way we play, they can leave. Reguardless we want people to be able to get aquainted with our way of play before we pretty much say DL these maps or leave. If anyone else agrees/dissagrees with that I'd like to hear your support/arguement
                        I agree with this, Damage. I think new ppl are the only way to fatten the TG ranks and weeding out the ones who are "deathmatchers" by putting in relatively unknown maps in the server rotation. I think these new maps shuld be put in rotation for sure, as I would like to play them, but they should probably be integrated slowly so that we still get people into the server. Also, like Damage, I was once a kill seeker and a KDR fanatic, but TG PCS showed me a whole new, and much more fun, way to play CS.

                        |TG|StAsIs
                        Last edited by xXDark_StasisXx; 07-02-2005, 11:50 PM. Reason: spelling error
                        sigpic
                        Connor: We haven't really got a system of deciding who, Roc. It's, uh...
                        Rocco: Me! *Me*! I'm the guy! I know everyone! Their habits, who they hang
                        out with, who they talk to! I've got phone numbers, addresses! I know who
                        they're screwing! I know where they live! We could kill *everyone.*
                        Murphy: So what do you think?
                        Connor: I'm strangely comfortable with it.
                        *The Boondock Saints*

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                        • #13
                          Re: Server changing...

                          Originally posted by Damage Inc.
                          Reguardless we want people to be able to get aquainted with our way of play before we pretty much say DL these maps or leave. If anyone else agrees/dissagrees with that I'd like to hear your support/arguement
                          Well, it can be argued that there are so many CS players out there looking for a low ping server like ours, that weeding out the majority of smacktards via custom maps makes life easier here at TG. Will custom maps keep away a few players that might be perfect additions to our community? Perhaps, but proportionally, the vast majority of the people turned off by custom maps are going to be the kind of people that we don't want here anyway...

                          Custom maps or not, our public CS server is going to have about the same amount of traffic...
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                          • #14
                            Re: Server changing...

                            I really dont see many people just hopping around servers playing custom maps...and if they are, THOSE would be the smacktards playing iceworld and so fourth. I don't exacly have the right words to describe what i'm getting at here....I've been drinking so getting a 100% accurate fix on what im trying to say here is difficult (sorry I really dont wanna be one of the idiots going "oh man im so drunk lolzor!!11oneeleven"...just telling the truth). It's along the lines that I dont think most people really think our kind of play exists outside of the more professional clans/CAL. I was never looking for a community or server like we have; but once I found it I really can't imagine playing CS:S anywhere else....ever (and I never have). This is what I've been looking for and I haven't known it, and now (as I see it) it's falling apart.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Server changing...

                              Here is a list of maps that should not be on the server. Though this statement is made by someone who could be considered both a nub-loaf, nub-steak or even the dreaded h-mo in the face of the majority of the tg community, I yet still feel that this list embodies the many complaints I've heard in-game while aboard the server:

                              cs_harvest

                              that is all.

                              I'm looking forward to playing more custom maps (de_view, or whatever is mighty fine), but if they're all like harvest then I'd be hard pressed to find them enjoyable. CS in general is a game in which close quarters, mainly urban, combat takes precedence. This can also be seen in the sheer detail lovingly skinned in each urban camo clad model :p . This is not to say I don't think the map isn't a work of art in itself. I just don't think it's a very appropriate map for tg. Not once have I seen the hosties rescued.

                              The expansive, wide open environment that harvest presents makes it nigh impossible for the ct's to effectively engage in a hostage rescue situation. The hosties are encased in a tiny house shell, which is surrounded by a huge, wide open field. the t's, whose job it is to defend the hosties, surround the house as appropriate, and when a large force of ct's is seen the t's are shifted to cover that area, and at that point generally either force is killed. If not, then the t's have most likely holed up in the house. When this happens, the t's are in no position to not be aware of the ct's presence. This leads to some fairly exciting room to room combat, but then it's over. There is slim to nil chance that the hosties would so much as be addressed aside from avoiding killing them.

                              I'm not trying to be a dick or to step on anyone's toes here, I just feel that the map is too big for any server that doesn't cater to huge numbers of people. A map doesn't need to be huge to require strategy, so why bother making it so? Incidently, look up a map called de_3rdstreet or some such, I think that map would make a fine replacement if you still insist on having an Uber map. Someone would need to test it though, for all I know the bombsites could be at opposite ends of the map. Anyway this is just my opinion (and I feel a few others). I also acknowledge that my place isn't so much bitching as it is with my hand in my pants enjoying tg's unique play style, I just thought I'd give my two cents about this "problem". take care.

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