Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

    I hereby ask any willing admins to define exactly what these terms are, so as to avoid confusion that has spawned 3 (now 4) threads on the matter. I am NOT questioning any admins judgement, nor am I complaining about admin behaviour in a public thread.

    Alot of people still don't know what these terms mean, and I myself am a little confused.

    1) How can bunny hopping be illegal if CS:S doesn't allow it? Do you mean just jumping up and down? Give an example, please.
    2) Does crack jumping being illegal mean that you cant jump around a corner and fire when you land? Or fire midair? Or do it period? Would it encompass situations like a CT on militia jumping sideways down the inside stairs instead of running down them?

    Again, I am not complaining here. This is merely an attempt to gain information so that no more threads are spawned, and so that there is no more confusion in this situation in the future. I would appreciate as many admins as possible giving their own definitions, to get the widest span of what this is out into the public.

  • #2
    Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

    Bunnyhopping is the art of jumping as you strafe left and right. If you're pressing your +forward bind, you're not bunnyhopping. Engines past gave additional speed to strafing units, so jumping as you strafed like this (never using +forward) caused you to move forward at a speed greater than that at which you would move forward by constantly holding down the +forward bind.

    I've not seen bunnyhopping in CSS. I'm sure that it would be disallowed on our PCS servers if it happened.

    The objective of bunnyhopping is to move from one location to another quickly by exploiting engine design. It has nothing to do with avoiding fire.

    To better understand bunnyhopping, see _ziGzaG's tutorial.

    People incorrectly call crackjumping "bunnyhopping" because they've heard the term "bunnyhopping" forever, and this is where the confusion sets in.

    Crackjumping is just as it sounds... jumping repeatedly like you're on crack to avoid taking damage.

    You do see crackjumping in CSS. It is disallowed on our PCS servers.

    The objective of crackjumping is to jump repeatedly and sporadically to avoid taking damage from fire. It has nothing to do with moving from one location to another.

    Some folks think we should just call it all "bunnyhopping" and call it a day. I don't care what you call it, really. I can appreciate folks wanting to know the difference. Just know that both are disallowed on the server (I realize the above post isn't contesting that).
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

      Originally posted by Wyzcrak
      The objective of crackjumping is to jump repeatedly and sporadically to avoid taking damage from fire. It has nothing to do with moving from one location to another.
      Therefore, jumping around a corner to gain suprise on an enemy would be legal, as long as that player only jumps once. correct?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

        Also, why is bunnyhopping allowed on the NS servers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

          Thanks for clearing that up, Wyzcrak.

          I do have a question or two, though...

          Crackjumping is just as it sounds... jumping repeatedly like you're on crack to avoid taking damage.
          I mean, I guess it really doesn't matter to me because I don't think I do it anyway (I wouldn't know without playing), but what's so bad about a person doing this? If it's making them more vulnerable for damage, that's their own fault, right? If it's keeping them from taking as much damage, well, isn't that a good thing? If it's disallowed it's disallowed. My intentions aren't to contest it, but to rather get a clear idea why it is, in fact, illegal.

          Does crack jumping being illegal mean that you cant jump around a corner and fire when you land? Or fire midair? Or do it period? Would it encompass situations like a CT on militia jumping sideways down the inside stairs instead of running down them?
          I don't see why that would be disallowed. Jumping around a corner to fire a weapon? Maybe I'm missing something here, but what's the big deal there? :-/

          As I said, I'm not questioning any admin or complaining. I haven't had this issue with anyone. I'm just curious about the whole situation because of...

          A) The two random locked threads on it yesterday
          B) Someone mentioned it in the server later that night

          I just want to (and everyone else who plays in the CS:S servers) be on the same exact page on this subject.

          I don't think I engage in either of them anyway. If I do, it's certainly not intentional. Just out of habit I guess.




          For the latest on the , , and , visit the .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

            seph was apparently slayed for jumping around a corner. Thats the confusion.

            And actually, 4 threads on the subject have been locked.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

              Originally posted by Karkianman101
              Also, why is bunnyhopping allowed on the NS servers?
              Bunnyhopping was left in the game as a design decision. The NS admins decided to allow this practice then, as it was no longer an engine exploit but a game design decision.

              NS has the luxury of being rooted in a reality other than our own, and can therefore get away with some things that might be frowned upon on other games.
              [volun2]
              NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
              Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
              <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
              <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

              Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                Seph wasn't banned for gameplay. I banned Seph because he disregarded our rules and started the public thread complaining about admin action. Come on now... if I'm going to write all this crap below, at least do me the service of getting the facts straight.

                One (nevermind who.. let's pretend it's me) asks "what's the big deal?" when it comes to bunnyhopping or crackjumping. I've got an answer for that. It may seem overboard to you, but it's valid, well-rooted, and I'll delete any post I see attempting to debate it:

                To many who play here, Tactical Gamer is where you come to engage in team-based, objective-oriented experiences with intelligent, mature, and respectful players who share a common enthusiasm for sharing these attributes in their gameplay. But too many have lost sight of the fact that Tactical Gamer was founded on more than teamplay and a focus on objectives.

                When Apophis created this gig, he wanted an environment of near-simulated "real-world" combat. Read that sentence again if you have to. If you must, get upset that you've been here this long and only now are being told about this. Whatever. Just make sure you understand it. Teamplay, yes. Objectives, yes. But don't forget about the near-simulation element of all this.

                Yes, this is a game. No, this isn't real life. Nevertheless, whenever it is reasonable (not necessarily possible) to do so, we want our PCS gameplay to feel like an "actual combat" simulation.. or, put another way, an actual "combat simulation."

                No, real Ts and CTs probably don't jump up into the air even once when they're fired upon. But we're human, this game can catch us off guard sometimes, and we're likely going to sometimes slap the spacebar in nervous reaction to an unexpected encounter with the enemy. So, no one needs to walk around fearing admins because they're bumping into their own spacebar from time to time. That's not what this is about.

                If someone shoots at you, and you jump up and down, over and over again during the firefight, that's not in any reasonable way resembling real-world combat. But I don't see anyone trying to stand up for that sort of behavior, so let's forget about it.

                Now... if you jump around a corner to shoot someone, you're only jumping one time, right? Right. So you're safe, right? No, not really. Ask yourself: is it reasonable, as we try to simulate real-world combat operations, that a dude would leap from around a corner and shoot someone in the neck as he floats through the air? No, it's not. Is it possible? In real life? Oh hell yes. Physics is a very forgiving force within the realm of theory. Given enough jumping-around-corners, you'll float through the air and pop the guy in the neck eventually. Possible, yes, but not likely... AT ALL... and I mean AT ALL. So.....

                It's not reasonable, AT ALL, given our simulation mindset. Are you gonna get permabanned, pointed at, and laughed at if you do it once? Probably not (at least, *I* certainly hope not). Are you going to be justifiably discovered as someone who can't wrap his head around the simulation aspect of PCS if you do it repeatedly, time after time (even if not every time)? I would think so, yes.

                --- Ok.. that's that... now.. about NS.. ---

                Natural Selection is a solecism within Tactical Gamer. It's not real, at all. It's aliens VS marines. You don't apply to Natural Selection many of the nuances you apply to other games hosted here. Yes, the server offers some of Tactical Gamer's best teamplay and objective-oriented coordination, but it's a game very unique when compared to the other games hosted here, and that's apparent when you look at how it's managed.

                In Counter-Strike, bunnyhopping was an oversight which players later exploited within the engine to gain an advantage not considered during the game's design of the mood and balance.

                In Natural Selection, which came later ( as most better things do :) ), it's quite the opposite. Bunnyhopping is an integral, encouraged, and crucial skill which the developers intend and ask players to learn and apply to gameplay (This applies to aliens. Marines can do it briefly and rarely, but it's not an issue and, for the sake of discussion, isn't part of gameplay, intended or not). They're aliens.. it's silly to apply "near-simulation" PCS standards to them, as they're not even human. They've got FOUR LEGS, for crying out loud. lol And so... no one (who plays Natural Selection) DOES apply to alien bunnyhopping the kind of negative connotation typically applied to bunnyhopping Terrorists. There's no reason to.

                To say that bunnyhopping is an exploit that Natural Selection alien players use to get an unfair advantage is like saying Counter-Strike players exploit walls to "unfairly" send flashbangs around corners. Both are examples of the game designers integrating an aspect of the engine's design and function into the intended behavior of their creation's gameplay.

                Beyond "unfair advantage", the other problem with something like bunnyhopping is that it doesn't "feel real" (the main reason crackjumping isn't allowed in PCS).

                But you can't apply the "it doesn't feel real" argument to aliens from outer space... it just doesn't work. As a matter of fact, if you allow your imagination to embrace the idea of you being AN ALIEN FROM OUTER SPACE, bunnyhopping on all fours, moving damn fast, feels VERY REAL. I dare say that, if we were trying to simulate marines, who really existed (our uncles and grandfathers) fighting aliens in spaceships in our Natural Selection games, it would be a DEPARTURE from "near-simulation real-world combat" to PROHIBIT alien bunnyhopping.

                ---

                If I used CAPS in this post, it's to stress certain words, not to yell. I hope my explanation was helpful, especially with regard to why bunnyhopping works so well in NS when it fails so miserably in PCS.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                  Very nice explination Wyzcrak. Hopefully that will clear up any and all misunderstandings that people have on the subject.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                    One tiny further clarification: You said that jumping round a corner and getting a headshot midair is frowned on. What about jumping, then waiting to land before you start firing?

                    Also, I said seph was slayed for it, not banned. 0_o

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                      nub admin ftl. Slayed, indeed. I stand corrected. :)

                      You're not asking me if jumping around, landing, and shooting is allowed, as I've just told you what allows something.

                      So, what you're asking is if it's reasonable to do that within the simulation mindset.

                      I say no. Wouldn't you agree?
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                        Exactly why I came right out and said...'If it's disallowed it's disallowed. My intentions aren't to contest it, but to rather get a clear idea why it is, in fact, illegal.'

                        Whether Seph was slayed, banned, kicked...I could care less (no offense Seph). That's of no concern to me. My concern was outlined in my post and you (Wyzcrak) acknowledged it for all it was worth. That's all I asked. Thanks for clearing it all up.




                        For the latest on the , , and , visit the .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                          You said midair. I was just checking that tiny little shred of doubt as to whether you meant only midair, or midair and after landing.

                          When I'm playing, I like being completely sure of my options. And now I will no longer use that tactic on militia.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                            Allow me to mention one thing: not debate, in any way, mind you

                            Given enough jumping-around-corners, you'll float through the air and pop the guy in the neck eventually. Possible, yes, but not likely... AT ALL... and I mean AT AL
                            Now if you've got a 12 guage shotgun with a pistol grip (as the military standard is now) and you hop around a corner, land and fire and have a general idea of where straight is, you're probably gonna peg him in the neck. And the head. A few times.

                            JUUST had to mention that.. you guys know me...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What is B-Hoping, Crack Jumping, etc. (not a complaint thread)

                              I do that sometimes, more for the element of surprise than anything else.

                              I jump or strafe jump down onto some stairs or into a doorway, squat when I land, quickly target and shoot. One jump, not repeatedly jumping, not shooting mid-air.

                              I don't know how people hit much of anything far away without waiting for their crosshairs to close in anyway.
                              Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
                              Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X