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  • What just happend?

    I joined to day and now we have a Password! WTHeck comon guys what is going on? Our or Admins really that bad and if they are mabey they should have never had Admin privleges in the first place. I dont know what happend but I am Disapointed in what ever went on and im sure im not the only one. :(

  • #2
    Re: What just happend?

    Originally posted by lucky15234
    I joined to day and now we have a Password! WTHeck comon guys what is going on? Our or Admins really that bad and if they are mabey they should have never had Admin privleges in the first place. I dont know what happend but I am Disapointed in what ever went on and im sure im not the only one. :(
    If you bothered to read Root's announcements, you would know exactly what is going on, and why.

    Thanks for your (backhanded) support.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What just happend?

      Originally posted by lucky15234
      I joined to day and now we have a Password! WTHeck comon guys what is going on? Our or Admins really that bad and if they are mabey they should have never had Admin privleges in the first place. I dont know what happend but I am Disapointed in what ever went on and im sure im not the only one. :(
      Try reading the new posts, specifically the ones in THIS forum that are stickied up top that explain EXACTLY what is going on.

      The crux of the problem *grin* is that people don't read the required content on this site before playing on the TG server and do not understand why our servers are here in the first place. This lack of attention to the required rules and SOPs dictated this change in policy that Root has made. This new policy is firmly backed up by the senior administration team as the right thing to do.

      The only think you should be disappointed in are those individuals who do not read *double grin* the appropriate content in the forums and thereby do not know what we expect of them on the TG servers.
      Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What just happend?

        In my opinion, and this isn't to say anything bad about any t-admins in particular, but the whole idea of Supporting Members getting T-Admin privileges by default was probably a bad idea to begin with. Imagine if someone let out on the server that you could get admin rights if you are a TG support member. There could be some cluebie on the server who overhears that, signs up, knows nothing about our playstyle, and starts kicking/slaying/threatening people when no other admins are on. I dont know if this situation has ever happened, but i'd be surprised if it didn't.

        That said, I do believe giving limited admin abilities to people who prove it and deserve it is a good idea, and shouldn't be a rare occurance. TG servers require a higher degree of hands-on administration then most other CS servers, and the more admins we have who can help, the better. Especially during the whee hours of the night when none of the real admins are online.

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        • #5
          Re: What just happend?

          it seems like it has, and thats why the privilages have been revoked. i belive this is one step in the right direction for the CS:S department.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What just happend?

            Well, thats also part of the reason why i played on the TG server for sometime before becoming a supporting member, when i became a supporting member that was before the whole T-admin thing, and even when i had t-admin powers it was limited when admin was online and i thought that was a great idea. A t-admin was just to keep pubbers in line in a full admin's absence. Yes, this t-admin thing got way out of hand, i tried to keep control of my powers. And it recently got especially bad when all the commands changed. Ive only been with TG for only about 7 months and i know quite well about PCS, and i may slip up on some things everyonce in a while, but i pretty much know how things are supposed to work. I think there should be a type of application to be a supporting member to filter out all the smacktards.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What just happend?

              Originally posted by Lazarus
              In my opinion, and this isn't to say anything bad about any t-admins in particular, but the whole idea of Supporting Members getting T-Admin privileges by default was probably a bad idea to begin with. Imagine if someone let out on the server that you could get admin rights if you are a TG support member. There could be some cluebie on the server who overhears that, signs up, knows nothing about our playstyle, and starts kicking/slaying/threatening people when no other admins are on. I dont know if this situation has ever happened, but i'd be surprised if it didn't.

              That said, I do believe giving limited admin abilities to people who prove it and deserve it is a good idea, and shouldn't be a rare occurance. TG servers require a higher degree of hands-on administration then most other CS servers, and the more admins we have who can help, the better. Especially during the whee hours of the night when none of the real admins are online.
              That is exactly the issue that has currently been raised, and addressed.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What just happend?

                Originally posted by Lazarus
                In my opinion, and this isn't to say anything bad about any t-admins in particular, but the whole idea of Supporting Members getting T-Admin privileges by default was probably a bad idea to begin with.
                As a counterpoint, I feel obligated to say that the process started on the TGNS server, and continues to thrive there.
                [volun2]
                NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What just happend?

                  Originally posted by Pokerface
                  As a counterpoint, I feel obligated to say that the process started on the TGNS server, and continues to thrive there.
                  Same engine, different clientele. *shrugs*

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What just happend?

                    There is a very good reason that the T-admin thing didn't work as stated on the CSS servers. Root called it "SM's not fully understanding PCS gameplay" I call it "Nobody actually writing out specific rules of PCS gameplay"
                    I've been hanging around the CSS servers for about a week now, and the biggest arguments people have are because of things like: People disagreeing on what constitutes rushing, on wether or not firing randomly is PCS, wether or not throwing HE's near a hostage but not close enough to cause them physical harm is okay, etc. All very specific things that somebody should have made definitive answers to at some point. Nobody did. If you read the PCS rules, it goes through the usual mantra of not cheating, be respectful, communicate, play as a team and such, but the only specific thing it mentions is no firing randomly into a hostage room. The worst part is, The admins don't agree on all of those points, and can and do enforce them differently. So how can you expect T-admins to enforce them properly? Combine that with the attitude of your average CS player and yeah, it's not a surprise it didn't work.

                    It's not the same story on NS, because all you have to enforce there is TK, cheating, and abuse, ftmp. T-admins almost never have to enforce subjective rules.

                    I personally think that CSS has gotten out of hand insofar as the TG primer is concerned. You've droped the CSS servers to the level of the elitist clan servers IMO. If you're going to lock both servers, then get rid of one, because you aren't going to need it anymore. The whole reason you locked 2 was because you wanted a place where you could play your PCS games exactly the way you want them played. Now you've locked off server 1 for the exact same reason. If all you want is a place for you and your buddies to play your type of CSS games, then drop server 1 from the face of the planet, and you have server two and hey, more power to you. But for the love of god, stop trying to blame everybody else for why you think the servers have gone to hell.

                    This is what I see:
                    The admins failed to outline the rules so they could be easily understood by all.
                    The Players fail to play PCS, partly because they don't all 100% understand it, partly just because of smacktardary, partly because of n00bishness.
                    The admins end up having to dicipline people constantly.
                    The admins get frustrated because of having to constantly deal with this stuff when they play.
                    The temp admins attempt to enforce rules that they don't 100% understand. Sometimes well, sometimes not so well. They end up getting frustrated.
                    The (t)admins end up allowing frustration to affect their judgement for punishments.
                    ((Example: I saw a full admin slay the entire T team twice on a bomb map because 1 single person wasn't following the plan, as opposed to dealing with just that player.)

                    It may look like I'm trying to blame the admins, but I'm not. There's plenty of blame to go around, and everybody should take their fair share. What we should be worrying about now is what we're going to do to fix it, and how to keep it in line with what TG stands for. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always thought TG thrived on bringing in new people and teaching them how to play in a manner that everybody could enjoy. I don't see how locking the server solves the root problems.

                    What I think needs to be done, in general, is that the SOP for PCS needs to be rewrittien to an extent to detail exactly what the rules are for various actions, being as specific as possible. You can't think of what those situations might be? Ask the players. In about 15 minutes I bet we could come up with about 20-30 things that we weren't 100% clear or in agreement on, with gameplay examples. That way, when an issue comes up, we can say "This is not PCS because this section of the SOP clearly states it's not, or that this similar action is not". It also clears up the arguments based on the subjective wording of the SOP. Is it alot of work for somebody? Yes, but that's why you delegate. It's not like the community isn't willing to help you if you ask (or even if you don't).

                    And that is all I have to say on the matter.
                    a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
                    Celibacy is not Hereditary.
                    Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
                    Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
                    Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What just happend?

                      For a while, there wern't many admins playing on the servers any more. That was all after the crash and that's when things went bad. I think if admins put a little more time into shaping things up everything could have easily been back to the way it was before. Personally, I think these new policies are just a product of lazyness....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What just happend?

                        I'd like to add that I completely agree with Spyder...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What just happend?

                          It's time for one of my long-winded posts. Grab a beer, get comfortable, and give me +rep green bubble goodness for my time...

                          Many moons ago, I was very frustrated with the level of play on the Counter-Strike servers that XLII.COM was hosting. XLII.COM was run by me, it was the beginning of Tactical Gamer as you see it today. I got this idea in my head that I was going to start from scratch and try and attract a specific type of player and weed out the average pubbies in the process.

                          I posted a rather long-winded post on the alt.games.half-life.counterstrike on July 9th, 2001 and presented a concept to the Counter-Strike community that was present on USENET back in those days.

                          You can read that post by clicking here. Some of the responses to that post are from people that are still here today.

                          In order to make this work, I needed to guarantee that I wasn't going to have a heavy administrative burden. That the people that played on the server WANTED to be there because they were actively seeking the type of gameplay we offered. We were not there to train new players and we were not there to try and convert people to our style of play. Network 42 CounterStrike was created to cater to a very specific niche market in the community and it did so with overwhelming success.

                          We launched the servers and simultaneously launched an application system. New players were required to fill out an application in order to gain access to the server. The applications were reviewed by me personally and each one was analyzed for several things INCLUDING the ability to write a coherent sentence that was in plain English. If you used leet speak your application was thrown out. If you couldn't answer the basic application questions your application was thrown out.

                          I know what you're thinking, well, what some of you are thinking. And no, we didn't have an empty server. There was a period of about a month at first when the activity was low. But once the ball got rolling our servers were packed constantly. We had two servers online and at the height of Network 42 Professional Counter-Strike you had to wait in line to get a spot on one of the two servers.

                          Eventually interest in the game from our core group of players died out. They moved on to other games like Ghost Recon and Battlefield 1942. That was pretty much the end of the original incarnation of N42 PCS servers.

                          Now we have a new opportunity with the Source engine. We have a new player base interested in the game, and we have even MORE flexible rules for getting involved! We're only asking that people read a few posts and understand our basic rules and our purpose. If you read and understand these posts, the concept of PCS shouldn't be that hard to grasp. There is a big difference between playing to the rules of TG and playing to the SPIRIT of TG. Some people get it and others do not.

                          For those of you that remember N42 PCS, you will remember that I was not a molly-coddling admin. If you didn't understand why we were here, and it was apparent through your style of play, you were removed. If your team could not get it together I would spare no hesitation in slaying the entire team to get their attention and to ask them to get their s**t together.

                          A lot has changed in the past 5 years. Many players on the server these days consider "teamwork" to be simply yelling through their microphone that they're going to run through the wine cellar while the rest of their team goes elsewhere. They consider "strategy" to be calling "rush left", or "rush right". Sure. This may be 1000x more teamwork than you fight on most pubs, but it still doesn't cut the mustard for Tactical Gamer.

                          I remember a new player that hopped on the server. It was this guy named Creepy that later became a good friend and someone I consider family. His first day playing he hopped on and asked what he could do. We were playing a cs_ map and I asked him to stick with me and to cover my blind spot while we advanced on the right flank of the garage up to the rear ladder. This guy stuck on me like tar paper, watching my six, moving in short bursts and then scanning our fire sectors before our next advance. We worked together naturally with very little verbal communication. We took turns on point during each round and dominated every round we played. Creepy "got it". Granted, he was retired USMC and had a concept of what teamwork and responsibility really is, but he understood how we played and what our purpose was and did perfect from day one.

                          From this point forward, we need to clean house on our CS servers. If you get it, great, if you don't get it. Well. Start learning.

                          PCS does not need hard rules, it doesn't need hard boundaries. It needs players that are focused on their TEAM. It needs players that work with their team to secure their PRIMARY OBJECTIVE. And it needs players that can COMMUNICATE and work together utilizing superior STRATEGY and TACTICS to accomplish their goals.

                          PCS does not need bunny hoppers. PCS does not need players that try and push the rules because they're trying to play to the hard rules rather than to the spirit of TG and PCS. PCS does not need players that whine and argue and bicker in game.

                          Thank you for listening.
                          Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What just happend?

                            my bad...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What just happend?

                              First of all, let me say that I am very disappointed that the server is password protected. Not because the admins are trying to keep out all the morons who just want to play a standard, mindless round of death-match, but rather because now there is nobody playing on the server despite the fact that the pw is located in the forums! So for now, as I cannot afford to be a supporting member, I have no place to play a decent round of css. This, to say the least, makes me sad. It is for this reason, among others that I feel that the password should be lifted from server 1.

                              Additionally, it would be in Tacticalgamer's best interest to lift the password from the server. Without a non-password protected server, many gamers may not find out about TG. I certainly would not have. More importantly for TG, many potential supporting members may not.

                              In regards to the other issues being addressed in this topic, I mostly agree with Spyder. Specific rules for the PCS style of gameplay need to be set. I have only been playing here for a few months, but I have witnessed time and again many questionable circumstances. For instance, some admins clearly have different ideas of boundaries. Last night, people were getting slayed for going down the stairs just a little in the middle in italy, while many other times with other admins online, this has apparently been OK. There needs to be clarification on boundaries and other like-issues.

                              If nothing else, there at least needs to be a set standard for admins to go by in regards to punishments. I have also been online when an entire team has been slayed because one person was not following an objective. This is not right. The out-of-line person should be dealt with, not the entire team. There also need to be guidelines set as for when a person is to be slayed, kicked, or banned as this is obviously done arbitrarily at this point.

                              Basically, right now all I would like to see is more people playing on server 1. I believe the only way to do this is to lift the password. There are some issues that should probably be dealt with here, but I really do enjoy playing on the TG servers, despite some questionable administrative actions and cloudy rules.

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