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  • A couple things...

    Alright, number one...where is everyone late at night anymore?! The servers are virtually empty every night starting at like 12:30am. It wasn't like that a few weeks ago from what I can remember...

    And number two, something that I think needs to be addressed and it's something almost, if not all of us are guilty of...efficient planning. I think we all do it at the beginning of rounds. You know what I'm talking about...

    "Going B."

    "Rush A."

    "Going Long Hall."

    "Watching Short A."

    The list goes on.

    What do those all have in common? They are very, very vague.



    I think this is an area we can all improve on, and on a consistent basis. Note that I say on a consistent basis, as it may not be necessarily something you do every round of every game, but nonetheless you know what I mean. I guess what it would come down to is someone sticking up and taking charge for a round, or for the entire map (something that's been discussed here many times).

    Again, something I think we're all guilty of and something that I think can be improved upon. It only adds to the enjoyment of playing.

    What do you guys think?




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  • #2
    Re: A couple things...

    In a situation where the group has created a very sucessful plan, especially when on defense, I believe it is fine for a round to begin and the self-appointed leader would just say "Do it again."


    If you have a problem with that, you shouldn't. Only when the plan works really well though.

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    • #3
      Re: A couple things...

      That's not what I meant.

      I'm talking about at the beginning of each round, people will either say or type...

      "Going B."

      "Going A."

      etc...

      In other words, the buy time is being used, but very vaguely at that. It doesn't seem like any one particular person will take charge and use the full buy time to come up with a decisive plan...something again I think we're all guilty of and can improve upon.

      Letting everyone know where you are going is naturally a good thing, but it's not very coordinated either.

      A simple 'Let's get three at A, one in middle and three at B' is a lot more informative than each person simply saying 'I'm going to B' or 'I'm going wine cellar'.

      Understand what I mean?




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      • #4
        Re: A couple things...

        Originally posted by .brok3n.
        That's not what I meant.

        I'm talking about at the beginning of each round, people will either say or type...

        "Going B."

        "Going A."

        etc...

        In other words, the buy time is being used, but very vaguely at that. It doesn't seem like any one particular person will take charge and use the full buy time to come up with a decisive plan...something again I think we're all guilty of and can improve upon.

        Letting everyone know where you are going is naturally a good thing, but it's not very coordinated either.

        A simple 'Let's get three at A, one in middle and three at B' is a lot more informative than each person simply saying 'I'm going to B' or 'I'm going wine cellar'.

        Understand what I mean?

        RGR that, I am guilty also, but i try my best to set up teams at each location on a defuse map, and I always attempt to give the most specific place that i will be.

        So everyone should try to improve comm skills, and try to give more specific places, and organize teams in each area, b, a , roof, long hall, apts, etc.

        With all the new stuff on the servers I think the gameplay will become better over time, and soon enough we wont have to make threads liek this, but anyway broken, thanks for bringing it up.

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        • #5
          Re: A couple things...

          For the record I wasn't nagging on anyone or bitching and moaning...I'm guilty of it as well, heh.

          It was just something I thought should be brought into the open to improve our standard of play on a consistent basis. More extensive planning and communication shouldn't just be a tourney and server two mainstay, it should atleast be implemented more in server one. This has come up in the past and I thought it would be a good refresher, especially with all the new happenings in the not so distant future here.

          Again, something we're all probably guilty of and something that can easily be improved upon.

          Edit: And yeah, more people playing later at night? k thx




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          • #6
            Re: A couple things...

            Originally posted by .brok3n.
            That's not what I meant.

            I'm talking about at the beginning of each round, people will either say or type...

            "Going B."

            "Going A."

            etc...

            In other words, the buy time is being used, but very vaguely at that. It doesn't seem like any one particular person will take charge and use the full buy time to come up with a decisive plan...something again I think we're all guilty of and can improve upon.

            Letting everyone know where you are going is naturally a good thing, but it's not very coordinated either.

            A simple 'Let's get three at A, one in middle and three at B' is a lot more informative than each person simply saying 'I'm going to B' or 'I'm going wine cellar'.

            Understand what I mean?
            And there you have it - one of THE biggest problems with the quality of play on our servers at the moment. Not disputes about rules, not personality clashes with admins, just a plain lack of tactical play.

            Azz - you're right that it's fine to repeat a plan that works, but I've noticed on many occasions, new players joining, and all they hear is "do that again". Too often these players don't ask what they should do - that's a failure to communicate on their part. The team commander should be aware if new players have arrived, and fill them in on the plan. Otherwise that's a failure to communicate on their part.
            Last edited by Root; 11-18-2005, 03:40 PM.
            BFCL TF2 league admin

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            • #7
              Re: A couple things...

              I think you'll find that type of activity mostly on the defensive team.

              The defensive team usually doesn't need much more of a strategy then to get in position and hold that position. So, in that case I think just knowing where everyone is stationed is good enough. That way if they die before they are able to get comm's out we can have a good idea what's happened. Usually it should be a case of being taken over by such surprise and speed that they couldn't get a word out.

              An offensive team needs much more of a plan than that though. "A" or "B" from the offensive team is unacceptable planning. "Do it again" works for me if the last plan executed was a great success.
              Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
              Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

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              • #8
                Re: A couple things...

                On defense, there is a little more you can do on some maps, which involve reminding people to fall back or some other such strategy, but usually a player will just hold a spot, which is definately ok. Not much more needs to be said then i'm going to camp B or A.

                In the case where a strategy keeps beating you, then the team needs to devise a plan to thwart it, whatever it takes.


                - -

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                • #9
                  Re: A couple things...

                  Some of the maps allow for little tactical planning, including some of those we play regularly.

                  I wouldn't say that there are 0 opportunities for tactical play on maps like cs_italy and cs_office, just that they do not offer as many tactical possibilities as the extended version, or other maps.

                  On italy or office, the defending team really has few options. There are limited routes to the objective, and breaking the team up into "apartments, middle, hall" or "projector room, front hall, side hall", is about as tactical as you get.

                  For the CT's it's not much better.

                  The key, then, to these maps, is the intel that communication provides for these limited tactical possibilities. A "long hall clear" provides ample information to revise a strategy midround.

                  On DE maps, communication is even more important. I can't say how many times someone neglects to say "engaged at B". The usual conversation is "where was that" when the kill message flashes on the screen.

                  That's more of an issue to me than a lack of a FeniX level plan. If there are limited defensive routes for the bombsites, like on dust2, A or B is a vaild plan, but only if is is supported by the appropriate level of teamwork which allows the rest of the team to defend or achieve the objective.

                  Absent both plan and communication, it's not PCS, and either the teams need to be shuffled so as to spur PCS play, or players need to be kicked.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A couple things...

                    Root: "not personalitie clashes with admins"

                    personalitie ???
                    Is this a word??

                    I dont think so




                    All I ask for is communication

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A couple things...

                      I totaly agree with Broken infact i mentioned this in my thread about captains games we need to make our plans more detailed but not so detailed that it takes an intire round to plan. I think that if we even extended the "buy time" if u will, even longer than what it is now just so some of the people who are not use to makeing plans will be able to have that extended time to come up with one b4 everyone just runs off. We wouldnt have to keep the time for very long maybe a month or so intill every one gets better at comming up with plans. Well just thought i would put my 2 cents in.

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                      • #12
                        Re: A couple things...

                        Originally posted by TG_Mateo
                        On DE maps, communication is even more important. I can't say how many times someone neglects to say "engaged at B". The usual conversation is "where was that" when the kill message flashes on the screen.
                        I knew there was something I forgot. Thanks for bringing that up.

                        Even a simple 'In position (location)' when you reach your destination would be more sufficient than playing the guessing game when teammates are dying and you're trying to figure out where.




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                        • #13
                          Re: A couple things...

                          Originally posted by Ben
                          Root: "not personalitie clashes with admins"

                          personalitie ???
                          Is this a word??

                          I dont think so
                          You spelled "don't" wrong.
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                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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