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Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

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  • Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

    It's come to my attention that some of those playing on Server 1 were disatified with the frequent map changes on Sunday. For this I apologize, but I was recieving several messages from what I percieved as the majority of players, requesting them. We were trying new maps, some of which didn't work out so well for one team or another. Xmas comes to mind, which although I didn't play the majority of the round, was a complete debacle. In the future I will exclusively change maps Only with the vote option if this would cause less of an issue. It wasn't my intent to lessen anyones playing experience (enjoyment) on the server, and I apologize again if tihs was the case. Dust2 was accidently changed on the last round because of an error on my part....I was attempting to set next map and it changed immediately instead. If you were on the server, I tried to explain my error at the beginning of the next round, but some of you may not have seen it....so Sorry again.


    “Hold it! Please!”


    “Sorry! Sorry ...

    There you See ... I just got excited again and I got carried away ...”


    “I'm ever so sorry.”



    “He's killed the best man!”


    “He's killed my auntie.”


    “No, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion!


    Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who ... We


    are here today to witness the union of two young people in


    the joyful bond of the holy wedlock. Unfortunately, one


    of them, my son Herbert, has just fallen to his death.”
    Dirt013




  • #2
    Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

    one less round of Dust2 is always a good thing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

      I tried cs_xmas out with some other people maybe a month ago and it didn't seem too balanced, all Ts had to do was guard the upper door on the balcony and the main tunnel at the bottom. It wasn't too hard considering how much of a choke point each entrance was.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

        Thank you Dirt for the conscientious post, however I have a few very important points to make that I hope all admins seriously consider and hopefully discuss.

        1) Exploring new maps, while I can't say is vital, is very important for the growth and furtherance of interest in CSS especially at tacticalgamer (where so many other games are available as an alternative to CSS). The same old maps can get very stale (for instance, de_aaa is becoming an eyesore for most players and almost everytime I play it I see a near unanimous groaning). Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to speak anyone else, but the point I'm trying to make is that I think a little freshness, for me at least, is a godsend. For me, CSS has always been what I would call a "revolving favorite" game. It's always been a favorite for me, I love that it is a sit down and play without super involvement type action game with a very good engine. But it's revolving in the sense that when it gets old, I turn to something else, and after awhile when I hear about something new in TG CSS, I come back to it. The new maps offer new tactics and new scenery that draw me in. I'd imagine it does the same for many other players, perhaps for different reasons.

        2) There are a lot of maps on the server that are not in rotation that could be accessed.

        3) As it stands right now, there is no mechanism to change off a stale map or access non rotation maps other than ask an admin that can do it to do it when you are lucky enough to see one playing. I really look forward to the day when the in-game @votemap is implemented. Until then however, the current situation leads to another very important point.

        4) The times I have asked for a map change I see a lot of hesitation, confusion, and mistakes. The mistakes are realtively minor, usually mistaking setting nextmap versus instantly changing maps, I think the admins should be knowledgeable and trained in using the proper commands. But moreso, the confusion and hesitation that admins encounter when trying to invoke a map change seems to come from 2 problems, what kind of mechanism to use (in game vote, chat vote, or whatever) and the problem of how to please everyone or make it "fair" which always comes up in this situation. I can understand as an admin that it is thoroughly awkward and deflating to hear lots of complaining about a map change decision from any of the players on the server. However, since you, admins, are the only mechanism for a very important feature of the server, something needs to be overcome in these regards until the SM votemap function is put in. Which leads me to my next point.

        5) Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to come off with some sort of god complex, but as a paying member of TG, I consider that I help pay for the server to be running and I would like that to have some substantial weight when it comes to making map change decisions, especially if it is over Joe D. Leethaxor that is just visiting the server. I wholeheartedly don't like to see admins such as Dirt swear to always use the in-game vote function exclusively to change maps. This makes me feel, and this isn't a threat or anything, that why in the hell am I paying for this if I'm going to be bunched up with those that don't? This is very discouraging. I don't know if it's possible, but I would really like to see the admins give weight to supporting members. I really think this is something that you guys should discuss and nail in the admin forum.

        And thank you Dirt, for changing maps. Granted some of the maps were a little crappy but it was a very refreshing change and one needed to actually play the maps in order to try them out and hopefully get some feedback on (which I will do soon in appropriate posts) in order to further TG CSS expansion. I would like to see you disregard some of the what I would call "unqualified" whining (for example, players getting owned because they weren't cautious or using teamwork on the new maps).

        I please ask that you guys discuss this and please if possible find a way to give weight to those of us that pay for the server.

        Thanks,
        SJ
        Last edited by Root; 04-07-2006, 09:49 AM.
        .



        [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
        "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
        - Wulfyn

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          1) Exploring new maps, while I can't say is vital, is very important for the growth and furtherance of interest in CSS especially at tacticalgamer (where so many other games are available as an alternative to CSS).
          The position of the admin team, is that we have no problem with setting time aside to explore new maps.

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          2) There are a lot of maps on the server that are not in rotation that could be accessed.
          I'm always happy to entertain constructive discussion of the map cycle. I've made a number of changes in the past based on popular opinion, and will continue to do so when it's in the interest of PCS.

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          3) As it stands right now, there is no mechanism to change off a stale map or access non rotation maps other than ask an admin that can do it.
          This is an issue. Unfortunately, we're dependant on mani and valve. Usually mani has to work around all the wonderful "fixes" that valve release in an update.

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          4) The times I have asked for a map change I see a lot of hesitation, confusion, and mistakes. The mistakes are realtively minor, usually mistaking setting nextmap versus instantly changing maps, I think the admins should be knowledgeable and trained in using the proper commands.
          Whilst the documention I've posted for admins and temp admins isn't entirely current, the bulk of the commands (including @map) have been unchanged since before I joined TG. I still make mistakes, despite all the time I've logged on the server, so I can only assume that other admins are also making mistakes. I wouldn't consider any of us un-knowledgable or untrained.

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          But moreso, the confusion and hesitation that admins encounter when trying to invoke a map change seems to come from 2 problems, what kind of mechanism to use (in game vote, chat vote, or whatever) and the problem of how to please everyone or make it "fair" which always comes up in this situation.
          It's possible that what you perceive as hesitation is simply an admin deciding to hold back, or being busy with something else at the time. Map voting can be set up from the mani admin menu. To the best of my knowledge, this isn't an issue about admins not having the information they need.

          5) Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to come off with some sort of god complex, but as a paying member of TG, I consider that I help pay for the server to be running and I would like that to have some substantial weight when it comes to making map change decisions, especially if it is over Joe D. Leethaxor that is just visiting the server. I wholeheartedly don't like to see admins such as Dirt swear to always use the in-game vote function exclusively to change maps. [/quote]

          We've always been democratic about map change votes.

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          This makes me feel, and this isn't a threat or anything, that why in the hell am I paying for this if I'm going to be bunched up with those that don't?
          The benefits of supporting membership include :

          - reserved slots on many servers
          - email account
          - web space
          - game and patch downloads
          - special event servers
          - team forums
          - other sundry services

          Being able to call map changes isn't on the list. That said, it's not unheard of for admins to receive map requests via adminchat, and to act on them. Further, as a PCS Proven player, Sloppy, you have access to the @map command on server 2, together with access to the page_pcsp command.

          Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
          And thank you Dirt, for changing maps. Granted some of the maps were a little crappy but it was a very refreshing change and one needed to actually play the maps in order to try them out and hopefully get some feedback on (which I will do soon in appropriate posts) in order to further TG CSS expansion.
          Bullseye! I know some of you don't like it when I go on a shopping spree for new maps, and some have even argued constructively against it, but at the end of the day, we have to keep things fresh and exciting.

          I'm certain this was posted with the best intentions, but comments about an admin's approach (or the admin teams approach) to running the server should have been done via PM.
          BFCL TF2 league admin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

            Originally posted by Root
            I know some of you don't like it when I go on a shopping spree for new maps, and some have even argued constructively against it, but at the end of the day, we have to keep things fresh and exciting.

            I think it's time for some major shopping!!!!!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

              I think some of the confusion with map changes can be alleviated by the t/admin's using the very helpful Admin in-game menu system that I believe Vulcan is responsible for (?) he has made it very easy to access the mani commands so that map changes can be set at end of round, end of map, or immediately.

              Too many map changes can be disruptive to the server but I think everyone who plays with us enjoys a new map every now and then.

              The votemaps are simply to give the players a bit of a chioce, I would hope they would appreciate being able to vote instead of living with my map selection. I try to do votes whenever there are people on who's map selection I would respect. ie. all regulars and PCS Proven's If it is all pubbies I usually let the rotation roll over normally.
              Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
              Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

                The vote map is just a feature of mani. The last time i tried to use it, it didn't actually change the map, but I thought it was mentioned somewhere that it was working fine. If it doesn't work properly, let us know.


                - -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

                  I can do map votes, but only with maps in rotation. (I tried last night for 747.)

                  It works both in console as a mani command, and also through my admin menu.
                  Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
                  Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

                    I believe there is a way, if you use the menu to tell it to draw from all available maps rather than just the rotation.


                    - -

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Server 1: Map Changes (Sunday)

                      When you type listmaps in console, whats displayed is the information from 2 files.

                      mapcycle.txt which lists the rotation and tells you the current and next maps.
                      maplist.txt which console displays for you minus any entries already displayed under the map cycle.

                      The reason GITS wasn't able to see 747 on the vote options, is that Vulcan forgot to update maplist on the server. Votemap draws on this file. If mani can't see it in that file, then as far as mani is concerned, the map isn't on the server. That's not a problem, because you can still change to the map manually, using @map.

                      I've updated maplist.txt, so votes should now be possible. Let me know if they're not please.
                      BFCL TF2 league admin

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