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Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

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  • Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

    I was playing on Ignorance and had a CT going in the sewer that was wearing a TG tag. I read up on the SOP and stuff about boundries and was wondering if your in the sewer which is no where near the bombsite, would that be proper? Forget the point wether or not it would be pushing the rules. I just want to know if that would be frown upon by the proven players.

    Thanks
    Dunagan
    DUNAGAN

  • #2
    Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

    On that map I think it touches a grey area. To ignore the sewers is to invite a surprise attack from (I believe) 3 different possible locations. Nobody ever seems to want to guard all three of the sewer exits near the bombsites which is often times a grave mistake. BUT once you're in the sewers you run the risk of moving too far out and can end up leaving the objective behind. I'd have to say it's a matter of intent. Was the CT in the sewer hunting for kills or was he scoping the sewers out for recon? Was he communicating his intent at all with the team or did he just rush down there?
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    • #3
      Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

      In my oppinion, there is no reason for a CT to be in the sewers ever. They are too far away from the bombsites and offer terrible defensive positioning.

      In my experience, the only reason people go into the sewers is to catch the Ts by suprise. Ts are only suprised by this move because there is no good reason for CTs to be in the sewers.

      Defending sewers from the top of the ladders makes far more sense defensively.

      -Aaron

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      • #4
        Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

        why be in the sewers when you can be at the bomb site?
        http://cpargermer.com/wateva/Itchyy1.png

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        • #5
          Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

          My opinion is really an response to the statement the T's were surprised, and the following quote from the SOP

          What about boundaries? There are no boundaries. Your team has an objective to complete. Make sure that your location is appropriate based on the various factors that have been discussed in the general PCS forum.
          As I have heard Root and Gogeta say, you should always be ready for contact no matter where you are at in a map. I also feel that to defend for instance the bomb site, you don't necessarily need to be "in" the bomb site yet within range so you can hear the bomb being planted and you can react in a timely manor to any threat to that site. Or for in the example of ignorance cut off any access to the site ie. sewer entrances. But I also would not think you would need to be in the sewer to cover them.
          I.R. Hogan |TG|


          Discipline is the soul of an army.
          It makes small numbers formidable
          procures success to the weak
          and esteem to all.

          ,,


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

            I knew someone would come by and echo the "there are no boundaries" meme. Every problem can't be solved by that one line...

            The point about suprise was it is a different kind of suprise. Finding a CT in the sewer is the same you feel when you are sitting in the Dust 2 Terrorist spawn making a plan and some CT comes from the B tunnels into spawn and starts shooting at you. You are right, there are no boundaries, but in both situations the CT shouldn't be there.

            So i'll concede... under extremely limited circumstances a ct might have reason to be in the sewer. I thought that caveat could be reasonably assumed.

            However, as a begining defensive setup, it is tactically more sound to be defending a ladder from the top. Even better, stick to a bombsite...

            -Aaron

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            • #7
              Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

              Originally posted by I.R. Hogan View Post
              Or for in the example of ignorance cut off any access to the site ie. sewer entrances. But I also would not think you would need to be in the sewer to cover them.

              As you can see here where I quote myself, I agree that they have no need to be in the sewer. But I need to add that I feel you must be flexible in your tactics. One of the biggest mistakes I see on the server is that people make a plan, then do or die stick to it even after it falls apart. Being in an inflexible state of mind "boundries" is a mistake in any situation. You should always expect the unexpected.

              With that said I must admit that there have been times that I have been "surprised" and it upset me at that moment and I reacted in the usual manor, Complaining that the person was out of bounds. I am now trying to fall back on my past military training, that is that being surprised was my fault, not the fault of the person that surprised me. It's the opponents job to surprise or catch thier opponent off guard. Its my job to be on guard and aware of the possiblities of attack and to be ready to defend my position in whatever area I may be in.
              I.R. Hogan |TG|


              Discipline is the soul of an army.
              It makes small numbers formidable
              procures success to the weak
              and esteem to all.

              ,,


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                I could see a ct getting in the sewers by church to see if there is any opfor down there, or to suprise them in the dark. It's near enough a bomb site to not be really far off.

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                • #9
                  Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                  I'd think it would be reasonable for a CT to camp one floor down on the sewer exit right by B if not all the way down at the end of the long sewer path. I know CTs are supposed to be defensive, and I'd say sewers on ignorance is pretty front-line, but it makes a lot more sense then sitting in a totally likely position and getting flashed.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                    I don't think it's unreasonable to say that "there are no boundaries" applies to the case in question. I also disagree with the assumption that the "surprise" is the same whether it be a CT rushing spawn or a CT in the sewers. In Ignorance I would rather guard the sewers from the sewers rather than above. Albeit never too far from the exits that I can't escape should things get too hot. But the darkness offers a lot of protection and concealability that make it more preferable for defense than out in the open where one can be flanked and surprised. As a T whenever I move through the sewers and I happen to be on point I will toss a flashbang straight up through the exit and without fail, if there is a defender watching the hole, they will be blinded or turn away just long enough to catch him and remove the threat. I also don't neccessarily agree that in every scenario the best defense is ALWAYS at the bombsite. However, I never do defend from in the sewers so as to avoid any kind of conflict with non-pcs players who may not understand why I was there in the first place. In this matter I'm more interested in hearing wether or not the CT in question had established communication of his intent before entering the sewer or if he had just gone down there leaving his team unaware of his location.

                    EDIT: For clarification I think it would be safer to say that I don't believe that the best defense is to ALWAYS split your team in two with one half on the A site proper the other on the B site proper. This makes things far to predictable for the offensive team and offers a very static defensive plan that doesn't allow much for tactical maneuvering. It IS always good, however, to at least have a couple guys at each bombsite as a line of last defense.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                      Thanks for the feedback, I really think there are some grey areas of the different maps and there are a few that wear the TG tags that like to stray off from the group in a non tactical position. I think one guy in the middle point of the map in a sewer is not super man and yes might kill a couple, but if he dies that would not follow the realistic point of the community. Going on a deathwish kill hunt is not a good idea. It could be a diversion, which if the other team members react to having to cover a position because of a fallen man than it will allow for some confusion. I much rather have a bottle neck scenerio then a 1 on 1 or 2,3,4 fire fight in the dark.
                      DUNAGAN

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                      • #12
                        Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                        Just an FYI, wearing TG tag only means they support the community at large, it doesn't mean they know PCS or what is tactical in particular maps. Look to pcs provens for that kind of information.


                        - -

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                        • #13
                          Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                          Sounds like this guy was just killhunting. There are differences between playing forward for the purpose of defense/recon and kill hunting. In the former the intent is communicated and valuable information regarding the location of the OpFor is relayed to the team. This puts the defense at quite the advantage. And we all know how the latter works, so no need to explain there.

                          If he wasn't communicating, then he was most certainly killhunting.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                            Just to clear things up, I was the ct that went down in the sewer; I did in fact keep communication with my team and relayed the message that I was "scouting" the area. I was actually going down the ladder when I was shot (shotgun by Bzerox), my intent was to go down and fall back to the shadows and report activity, and I even had NV goggles on (which actually donít work too well on this map). The best part was when I was dead, I heard my team say "darksoul died, we have sewer rats" This ultimately led my team to take defensive spots and cover our unguarded locations.

                            [below is a screenshot of players during match]

                            Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

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                            • #15
                              Re: Wonder If I Could Get Some Feedback

                              I think going down in the sewers gives up the great advantage of position you have at the top of the sewers. 1 guy can almost stop a whole team from coming up the sewers if he's positioned at the top, please he has an easy escape route if he can't hold them off.

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