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  • Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

    In another thread it was said that we don't help new players (http://www.tacticalgamer.com/counter...-maturity.html)

    I usually go out of my way to be helpful, especially in the forums. Hopefully this will help in giving some valuable understanding to players that have such issues in the future.

    Here's an analogy I think of when I see the reasoning of most complaints similar to the one referenced above, not in particular, because they do occur from time to time:

    Originally posted by Driver Dan
    I've heard there are really fun roads to drive on over at <X>-ville. I'm gonna hop in my car and check out these roads, woot! <Goes for a drive> OMG, that's a cop behind me pulling me over! Hi officer... A ticket? What? I was doing 60 in a 35? Come on I didn't know that, just forget it please? No? You're an <bleep>! What? Get out of the car? I'll get out of the car! <punches cop> I'm under arrest? <gets out of jail x days later> I have a compaint, but I'm not going to file it with the sheriffs department, I'll go spraypaint this injustice on a wall! What? That's illegal? C'mon man freedom of speech you <bleep> dictators!
    This kind of reminds me of players that come to our server for the cool maps as the attraction, don't really know the rules or playstyle but hop in for the game, sooner or later do something wrong and get a mild punishment/warning to nudge them in the right direction, and then as a reponse, for some reason or another, just go flipper; escalating the situation, pointing at everyone but themselves for not handling it right, bypassing the rules and coming up with their own justifications for doing so...

    Let me offer a bit of guidance; the forums, the MOTD, the SOPs are all here for a reason. It's not the admins job to repeatedly re-state these things to players in game over and over and over. More than likely you will be directed to review the SOPs here, where the responsibility to acquaint yourselves with the rules falls to the player, not to admins to read them to you like a bed time story. Admins are here primarily to remove elements that cause problems and hinder smooth gameplay on the server, to run the server (change maps etc). It's not the admins primary duty to handhold and babysit. Although I try to briefly explain corrective action as do all of us admins, the more we get into discussions/arguments in-game about such things, the more we go against our primary duty of ensuring smoothe gameplay on the server. That, is why often times such issues are encouraged to be taken out-of-server. Don't understand a rule? That's what the forum is for, post a question. What to question or dispute an action? That's what PM's are for.

    Most of the problems arise when new players get slain or kicked and go off like it's the end of the world and respond in such a manner that just further deepens their own grave and further makes the admin take more actions to keep the server running smoothely. Understand that such mechanics are used to basically put up a referee flag to indicate that something is wrong. The best thing that you can do is briefly ask why such a flag was thrown out. If you don't like or understand the answer, don't further make things worse by acting up or arguing about it in-game; avoid doing what you got called on in-game while you play, later out-of-game further the discussion in a cool headed manner via an appropriate route on the forums.

    Furthermore, not posting up or PMing (as appropriate) when a player has an issue just leads to a build up and further problems. Here's an example; John Doe is dead and observing and says in-game "What the hell? <X> is standing on a ledge that I was told was unrealistic and to get off by an admin the other day, but he can do it?!?" John Doe obviously has an issue with that. However, John Doe never puts up a post or PMs for clarification, just sits on it and takes the previous ruling against him as personal, or some sort of "injustice". Admins are not robots, if a player sees an issue, or an inconsistency, that player should PM the admins to bring it up for discussion and to work on it out of game. Don't harbor these things to later bring up as some sort of example of an injustice or whatever. Furthermore, by not doing so and then later bringing this up as fuel for a different fire or argument, it just goes to show that when it was an issue, the player was not willing to deal with it or be a community participant in bettering the situation.

    Again, keeping the game running smoothly is one of the admin's primary duties. If the action/response a player decides to take, especially in-game, goes against that, don't expect the admin to pause the game to right then and there to give players ultra special and lengthy attention. Expect more action if not removal from the server and direction to the forums if the player persists to disrupt the game. The rules and mechanisms are in place for this sake, and they make perfectly good sense. Arguing against them with fingerpointing and appeals to freedom and democracy will only show a lack of understanding of this basic mechanism.

    This thread is not for flames or to post issues you have, start another thread or PM as appropriate. If you have advice to add to this thread for players, feel free. Also feel free to point posters of threads that seem to be missing this point to this thread.
    .



    [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
    "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
    - Wulfyn

  • #2
    Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

    the only problem with that is that only admins are guaranteed a speedy and mature resolution. How do u get a speedy reply and a problem resolved quickly without using PMs? Shouldn't there be a chat or something too? Some problems can't be solved just via PM's and some problems should be public knowledge for public protection, yes?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

      I think this is a superb post.
      2nd Lieutenant Allyn J. Edwards, 28th Infantry Division

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

        Sloppy, your analogy is as hilarious as it is accurate. Kudos.

        Like I said in the other thread this is not a new topic. TG, in the abstract, is not friendly to new players. The rules are the complete opposite to what we have become accustomed to in online gaming.

        Adjusting the rules to accommodate new players sacrifices the core values that make TG a place we enjoy.

        What makes TG work is the amount of friendly, helpful, and genuinely nice people. We want this community to thrive, with THE RULES intact. Without the rules we hold dear, the community is no different than the rest of the online world.

        -Aaron

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

          Originally posted by BonesTG View Post
          the only problem with that is that only admins are guaranteed a speedy and mature resolution. How do u get a speedy reply and a problem resolved quickly without using PMs? Shouldn't there be a chat or something too? Some problems can't be solved just via PM's and some problems should be public knowledge for public protection, yes?
          Other than problems with players on the server "right now" I don't know what needs to be sholved immediatly. If you refering to what I just stated then my suggestion is to contact the admin in game or hop on teamspeak. Most admins will have it in there tag and usually don't mind helping out if need be.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

            What some people don't understand is that a kick is not an insult. I'm pretty sure almost all of the people here have been kicked at least once. I have personally been kicked on multiple occasions (though most of the time I was doing nothing wrong, at least not intentionally, it just seemed like it) and even though I find it very annoying, I don't hold it against the admin. Admins are humans too, and they don't want to spend tons of time, time they could spend playing, trying to explain everything every time someone breaks a rule.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

              like potshot said above... a kick is (usually) nothing to worry about... it happens.. u stray too far in a new map and end up in the opposing teams spawn... the admin that sees that didnt read your mind and know u were lost, so u get booted, the boot is your heads up, check the motd if you are new.. and stay with your team... if u got banned... by then.. u should have been WELL AWARE of what u are doing wrong.. or pourposfully did something to 'show the admin that kicked/slayed/slapped you whos boss' dont mess with the 'cops(from the op)' or youll get thrown in jail (banned... temp or permanant)
              powered by Windows 7

              . . . .

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                Originally posted by BonesTG View Post
                the only problem with that is that only admins are guaranteed a speedy and mature resolution. How do u get a speedy reply and a problem resolved quickly without using PMs? Shouldn't there be a chat or something too? Some problems can't be solved just via PM's and some problems should be public knowledge for public protection, yes?

                If you click on the admins and view their public profile most will have msn/aim/yahoo or xfire. If you dont find the PMs are working for you try those, admins are always willing to talk.

                If there is ever an issue that we as players need to know about the Game Officer or Apophis will post about it. Most issues are just misunderstandings of rules. If you get kickd, PM/chat with the admin who did it, get things cleared up and move along, don't ever post in on the forums about it.

                there is always opportunity to escalate the PMs. But follow chain of command: Admins, Game officer, and if you need to asch/apophis. Doing things that way always makes yourself look better and gets it done quicker.
                that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                -Vulcan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                  I don't appreciate paying 8 dollars a month as a supporting member only to be kicked/slayed at any admin's will because i'm playing well.

                  Recently, this has been happening very often... too often... to the point where I'm probably going to stop supporting this community. Admins are very biased and each admin has their own interpretation of the SOP's. Something that one admin allows you to do on a particular map, another admin does not. Instead of them giving u a warning, you are immediately kicked/slayed. It's utterly ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of it. Also, how are you supposed to know which admin it is that is giving you trouble and/or problems? When there are 4 admins in the server at the same time and one of them kicks you randomly in the middle of a round because you killed them.

                  Let's say, for example (this did happen yesterday) an admin on my team calls a strategy "xplosive, you go B and try to create a distraction and pick some of them off, while the rest of us wait at A and then move in." So, I go B, I kill two guys (including an admin on the other team) and then I get kicked. I come back and the reason I'm kicked is because I wasn't working with the team. I was following the strategy that the admin on our team (and bomb holder at the time) told me to do. I really am sick and tired of it. I don't pay 8 dollars a month to be treated like some kind of guinea pig. What am I supposed to do, let the other team know what our strategy is and ask them if that's ok??

                  This is just one example of the many injustices that have happened to me over the past few days. The next time I'm wrongfully kicked/slayed I'm out.

                  Good night.

                  P.S.
                  I wouldn't be surprised if this post magically "disappears" come morning - even though it is an important issue that the whole community should be aware of.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                    Originally posted by XploSive View Post
                    I don't appreciate paying 8 dollars a month as a supporting member only to be kicked/slayed at any admin's will because i'm playing well.

                    Recently, this has been happening very often... too often... to the point where I'm probably going to stop supporting this community. Admins are very biased and each admin has their own interpretation of the SOP's. Something that one admin allows you to do on a particular map, another admin does not. Instead of them giving u a warning, you are immediately kicked/slayed. It's utterly ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of it. Also, how are you supposed to know which admin it is that is giving you trouble and/or problems? When there are 4 admins in the server at the same time and one of them kicks you randomly in the middle of a round because you killed them.

                    Let's say, for example (this did happen yesterday) an admin on my team calls a strategy "xplosive, you go B and try to create a distraction and pick some of them off, while the rest of us wait at A and then move in." So, I go B, I kill two guys (including an admin on the other team) and then I get kicked. I come back and the reason I'm kicked is because I wasn't working with the team. I was following the strategy that the admin on our team (and bomb holder at the time) told me to do. I really am sick and tired of it. I don't pay 8 dollars a month to be treated like some kind of guinea pig. What am I supposed to do, let the other team know what our strategy is and ask them if that's ok??

                    This is just one example of the many injustices that have happened to me over the past few days. The next time I'm wrongfully kicked/slayed I'm out.

                    Good night.

                    P.S.
                    I wouldn't be surprised if this post magically "disappears" come morning - even though it is an important issue that the whole community should be aware of.

                    Way to create an example for sloppys post. Have you not been following the thread? PM an admin, any CSS admin and it will get handled in their forums and the admin who slayd/kickd will tell what happend. And just because you are playing well has nothing to do with why you get kickd/slayn.

                    Tonights example, you where off target not even close to the objective. If you just bought a SM to get a reserved slot then you clearly missed the point of Supporting the Community.
                    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                    -Vulcan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                      Im very supportive of contacting an admin via pm before posting threads like these but sometimes it would be nice for them to let the public know what the conclusions are that they come to in their forums. That way not only do people know that the problem was solved but we also know what to expect when these situations arise. At least in my case i will know what not to do since i will know exactly why i was kicked/banned.

                      other then that the rules work really well for the most part and one or two incidents shouldnt be a reason to change the rules around.
                      There are no winners in war.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                        Originally posted by Trooper View Post
                        Way to create an example for sloppys post. Have you not been following the thread? PM an admin, any CSS admin and it will get handled in their forums and the admin who slayd/kickd will tell what happend. And just because you are playing well has nothing to do with why you get kickd/slayn.

                        Tonights example, you where off target not even close to the objective. If you just bought a SM to get a reserved slot then you clearly missed the point of Supporting the Community.
                        How is guarding an entrance to the courtyard not following the objective of preventing hostage rescue? Why is it that I've done that virtually every single time I've played that map, with multiple admins in the server, and for some reason tonight I got kicked for it? Trooper, I'm not creating an example for sloppy's post because I am NOT NEW! I have been playing on this server for many months (since February) and never been kicked for the things that I've been kicked for recently. I know the SOP's, I know the rules, I follow them. The problem is that different admins have different interpretations, and different admins find certain strategies to be accepted, while others find the same strategies unacceptable. How is one supposed to cope with this? Also, thank you for assuming that the only reason I decided to put money into this was for a reserved slot, appreciate it.
                        Last edited by XploSive; 07-25-2007, 01:32 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                          Originally posted by XploSive View Post
                          How is guarding an entrance to the courtyard not following the objective of preventing hostage rescue? Why is it that I've done that virtually every single time I've played that map, with multiple admins in the server, and for some reason tonight I got kicked for it? Trooper, I'm not creating an example for sloppy's post because I am NOT NEW! I have been playing on this server for many months (since February) and never been kicked for the things that I've been kicked for recently. I know the SOP's, I know the rules, I follow them. The problem is that different admins have different interpretations, and different admins find certain strategies to be accepted, while others find the same strategies unacceptable. How is one supposed to cope with this? Also, thank you for assuming that the only reason I decided to put money into this was for a reserved slot, appreciate it.
                          Xplosive, if you would like to take this issue offline and discuss, I would be more than happy to speak with you.
                          If it isn't PCS, whats the point?
                          with any questions or concerns.
                          |


                          Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                            Admins and the server spam the rules and the warnings enough that you would think people would read them. Regular TG players get kicked all the time. They don't need a warning if they are wearing the tag. To wear the TG tag for example it tells me you know the rules and shouldn't be bending or breaking them. Yes and if your playing here since last month or more and your not wearing the tag your still known. Please private message an admin, pick anyone.



                            FUN FUN

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hard time adjusting to the server/rules?

                              Look at it from an admins point of view. The admin is running up to an area that is usually held by his team, but is officially no man's land. Now you jump out from behind a corner. You gun this admin down. You continue a bit farther to a secure position. From the admins point of view, it looks like you are rushing and kill-hunting. He doesn't want to waste multiple minutes arguing about it. He kicks you. Completely normal.

                              I've also noticed that if a admin makes a mistake, and you explain it without getting angry, they'll almost always say sorry.

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