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  • Round times...to long?

    Originally posted by rs_al
    One of the reasons most objectives based servers have a 3 minute round time is so that the T's can win by means other than killing all the CT's, simply presenting a good defense around the hostage area can push the cts back and they can run out of time. However, by having a 7 minute round time that option is essentially eliminated, and killing is left as the only choice for a T victory.
    Found this in a different thread and thought it was interesting enough to start a seperate discussion.
    It's a game. Keep it real. Keep it fun.

    -Keith

  • #2
    Re: Round times...to long?

    We discussed this in November. What does it say when I realize I've seen the clock expire once? Am I missing something?

    Originally posted by Apophis
    I don't really see the problem with the 7 minute time limit. I would rather people have the opportunity to use extra time than be forced to do it quicker. Granted, it's not a common thing to need the whole 7 minutes but I would like to allow for it.

    I'm really not a fan of pubby-cizing the server.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Round times...to long?

      The reason this is even an issue is because maps don't allow for "tactics". Grouping all the hostages into a single confined space doesn't do any justice to tactics. Neither does spawning at the bombsite, IMO.


      - -

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      • #4
        Re: Round times...to long?

        al's point is quite valid, and it's never been looked at in that light before. Worthy of discussion at the least.

        Vulcan: Actually, CTs spawning at the bombsite allows more tactics. What good is it if all of the CTs have to race to the bombsites to just beat the Ts before they get there? Then it's just deathmatch.

        3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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        • #5
          Re: Round times...to long?

          Take Dust for example. All the CTs and Ts running to that one bombsite. Turning an otherwise tactical map into a race.

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          • #6
            Re: Round times...to long?

            How about we see how the new maps from people like Vulcan and Ghost turn out before we cut the round time? I think 7 minutes is fine. I can let the fragmonkeys on my team rush off and die in the first 60 seconds, leaving me 6 whole minutes to plan an attack and execute it. This is especially good on hostage maps (I generally play CT).

            It has the added bonus of showing aforementioned monkeys the value of sneaking around instead of rushing in. Far more educational than keep sending out the same old console message sometimes.

            Root
            BFCL TF2 league admin

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            • #7
              Re: Round times...to long?

              Seems that maybe the game was designed to be balanced between the two teams, so that playing on terrorist is just as fun as playing on counter terrorist on any given map. Having a longer round team benefits the offensive team and only the offensive team, and makes the round that much harder on the defensive team.

              6 minutes to plan and execute an attack? I mean man, get those gears turning a little faster. If you were on the other team, would you appreciate sitting around doing almost nothing for the entire game? But I bet you sure showed those dead guys a thing or two. Frowning on attacking and attempting to complete objectives, rewarding sitting around doing nothing while your teammates die. A shining example.

              I think it says a lot that the most regulars prefer the offensive team. Playing the defensive team can quickly become a boring chore.

              I was playing on office the other day and at 5:30 remaining the entire CT team was wiped out except two people.
              At 2:45 one of them wandered into the long hallway and got owned.
              A few seconds later, the other wandered into the t spawn and got owned.
              The terrorist team had to sit for nearly 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing. All the dead players had to sit for 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing. All so that they could watch a TG and a regular camp around for a while, then walk in seperately to get shot in the face by a mostly untouched T team.

              Something to think about. Even if it were getting used to plan strategy, it is still unfair to the other players. This is why they have a clock in chess. Sure, it's nice that you're thinking and planning, but in all fairness you should think of your fellow players and their desire to get a chance to play.

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              • #8
                Re: Round times...to long?

                I loved playing defensive. Its more exciting IMHO because you have to first, come up with a plan, and then see it fall apart when the other team comes a different way.

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                • #9
                  Re: Round times...to long?

                  Originally posted by rs_al
                  you should think of your fellow players and their desire to get a chance to play.
                  As far as i'm concerned if i'm sitting there waiting for a CT to come and get my hossies then i am playing. Doesn't bother me how long it takes so long as i know the CT isn't afk.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Round times...to long?

                    It's a race because the map does not offer anything but a flat terrain, and nothing inbetween except double doors and some annoying barrels. Also IMO these maps were built for this style where as another map could include true scouting, ways to determine the enemy position and counter move. these are tactics i'm talking about. The maps that valve built are very 1 dimensional IMHO. I wanna see lookout points, ways to create an ambush, real combat strategies taking place. These things come from the area you have to play in and of course the people which we have already.


                    - -

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Round times...to long?

                      Originally posted by rs_al
                      All so that they could watch a TG and a regular camp around for a while, then walk in seperately to get shot in the face by a mostly untouched T team.

                      Something to think about.
                      Well...now we know one more person to run the clock on. Important tactical tip. Thanks!

                      Tactical play can get mud-slow. If somebody's going 2 v. 6 and go into super-sneak mode, well....that's expected. It's what I'd do. Regroup, rethink, run the clock and make the other guy antsie. One of the reasons to play here is that, in a situation like that, you can try those tactics...

                      and expect not to get chided about it.

                      If _you'd_ done it, I'd expect anybody with a TG tag to give you a hearty "nice try, next time", not come to forums and, well....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Round times...to long?

                        Originally posted by rs_al
                        Seems that maybe the game was designed to be balanced between the two teams, so that playing on terrorist is just as fun as playing on counter terrorist on any given map. Having a longer round team benefits the offensive team and only the offensive team, and makes the round that much harder on the defensive team.

                        6 minutes to plan and execute an attack? I mean man, get those gears turning a little faster. If you were on the other team, would you appreciate sitting around doing almost nothing for the entire game? But I bet you sure showed those dead guys a thing or two. Frowning on attacking and attempting to complete objectives, rewarding sitting around doing nothing while your teammates die. A shining example.

                        I think it says a lot that the most regulars prefer the offensive team. Playing the defensive team can quickly become a boring chore.

                        I was playing on office the other day and at 5:30 remaining the entire CT team was wiped out except two people.
                        At 2:45 one of them wandered into the long hallway and got owned.
                        A few seconds later, the other wandered into the t spawn and got owned.
                        The terrorist team had to sit for nearly 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing. All the dead players had to sit for 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing. All so that they could watch a TG and a regular camp around for a while, then walk in seperately to get shot in the face by a mostly untouched T team.

                        Something to think about. Even if it were getting used to plan strategy, it is still unfair to the other players. This is why they have a clock in chess. Sure, it's nice that you're thinking and planning, but in all fairness you should think of your fellow players and their desire to get a chance to play.
                        On this note, I don't mean to be rude, but I'd like to address it only.

                        The defensive team is not supposed to be "bored." I get excited just enough by moving between two different positions on defense. You never know when someone is going to pop out.

                        And you are supposed to have patience. Think of it this way. The terrorists are not supposed to know that the CT's are coming at all, so feel lucky that you do.

                        Also, boredom can be used as a tactic. I use it a LOT. Sit the team in the spawn for about 4 minutes, or recon for 4 minutes and then regroup and go. The defensive team gets "bored and restless" and runs around like an idiot shooting pictures and furniture.

                        This gives me a definate idea of the enemies location, and the advantage of surprise. This... wins me the game.

                        The 7 minutes are fine. No questions asked. It's been that way, and I'd like to keep it that way. It also helps weed out the idiots a bit.

                        -Mom
                        Yer Mom /O>

                        To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

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                        • #13
                          Re: Round times...to long?

                          Round times are set to 7 minutes. Don't expect them to change! :-)
                          Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Round times...to long?

                            Originally posted by Tempus
                            al's point is quite valid, and it's never been looked at in that light before. Worthy of discussion at the least.
                            You see, I would've thought that too, but then..
                            Originally posted by Apophis
                            Round times are set to 7 minutes. Don't expect them to change! :-)
                            That truly scares me.
                            [volun2]
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                            • #15
                              Re: Round times...to long?

                              Originally posted by Pokerface
                              You see, I would've thought that too, but then..

                              That truly scares me.
                              You frighten quite easily.

                              I've yet to see a compelling reason to reduce the round timer that overshadows why we set it at 7 minutes to begin with. This is NOT your average public CS server and not every round needs to be completed in 2-3 minutes. If people are complaining that they have to wait a whole **3** minutes for the next round, maybe they should reconsider their own personal strategy to keep them from dying so quickly.

                              In all honesty, I don't expect everyone to understand why the timer is set to 7 minutes per round. But it got that way through a lot of tuning over the years and watching how the tactics and strategy developed on the server.
                              Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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