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  • Weapons fire and hostages

    There have been repeated instances of late, where TG members (and others) have acted in an unacceptable way with regard to weapons fire near hostages. Shooting through the walls or closed door of the hostage shed in compound is not acceptable. Shooting through the closed garage door in militia is not acceptable. Under no circumstances should ANYONE be throwing HE grenades into a room that contains hostages.

    If a room contains hostages, you should ONLY be shooting at targets you can see *and* hit. If you are a CT, it is down to you to get into a position where you can do this without hitting the hostages If you are a T, you should have fallen back to the hostages before CT's get there. If you fail to do this you should also be playing to the above standard.

    Personally, I'm not inclined to give TG players any warning in-game before slaying for this behaviour from now on.

    Root
    BFCL TF2 league admin

  • #2
    Re: Weapons fire and hostages

    Question: Because Hostage locations are static until they are tagged by a ct, if you ARE a ct, and have memorized the locations of the hostages, are you not allowed to shoot with range accurate (not shotty and burst glock) weapons into areas where terrorists very likely are and you know you will not hit hostages? It is a very tactical thing to do, and I remember even using it to end the round against you yourself on compound.

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    • #3
      Re: Weapons fire and hostages

      I find that i'm going to shoot an enemy. If i feel i can do it safely without hitting the hostage. Even if there is a something inbetween us, If i know i'm not going to hit the hostage with my best effort i take the shot. Random shooting is definetly not a good thing anywhere near hostages.


      - -

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      • #4
        Re: Weapons fire and hostages

        Originally posted by Karkianman101
        Question: Because Hostage locations are static until they are tagged by a ct, if you ARE a ct, and have memorized the locations of the hostages, are you not allowed to shoot with range accurate (not shotty and burst glock) weapons into areas where terrorists very likely are and you know you will not hit hostages? It is a very tactical thing to do, and I remember even using it to end the round against you yourself on compound.
        No. You don't know that another CT hasn't been killed after tagging them. Also, you can't be certain you won't hit them. The objective is to rescue the hostages. You have flashbangs to help you achieve this.

        Root
        BFCL TF2 league admin

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        • #5
          Re: Weapons fire and hostages

          Once again this goes to intent and trust.

          If you know where the hostages are (they're on radar), and you know what effect your weapon will have on the room(s), and you know that you're not supposed to allow intentional harm to the hostages under any circumstances, then it's a judgement call and you have to make it.

          If you make it poorly often enough, admins will notify you.

          I personally will not likely be kicking for first offenses on this. Like most situations, I'll warn first and kick only after a pattern of behavior.
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          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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          • #6
            Re: Weapons fire and hostages

            Do those 2 posts conflict or are they both saying "Do this and we arent responsible for what happens to you" when yall really are? cause i was planning to remember where i can shoot into compound garage...

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            • #7
              Re: Weapons fire and hostages

              They do not conflict. They do, however, say that Root will be less forgiving than Wyzcrak, which really shouldn't be a shock to ANYONE. :P
              [volun2]
              NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
              Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
              <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
              <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

              Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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              • #8
                Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                Originally posted by Karkianman101
                Do those 2 posts conflict or are they both saying "Do this and we arent responsible for what happens to you" when yall really are? cause i was planning to remember where i can shoot into compound garage...
                No, they don't really conflict. They're kinda glass half empty/glass half full views of the situation, I think...

                Look, if you're absolutely certain that shooting blindly (because none of us can see through walls and radar isn't accurate enough to place fire) will not harm a hostage, then go for it. The situations when this will occur are rare. Very rare. The majority of the time, people that shoot blindly through a wall, directly into a small room full of hostages, simply don't care about their objective.

                It used to be against the rules here to "spam" walls at all. Shooting through doors or walls that were often used as hiding or camping spots was forbidden. This was for several reasons:

                1. It eliminated a lot of accusations of wall hacking.

                b. It made the game a bit more realistic. (I know that some of you don't like the way I apply "realism" to CS, but too bad. Real life Ts and CTs shouldn't know where the good camping spots are and wouldn't be emptying magazines into every crate and dark corner.

                iii. It leveled the playing field and made things more fun. We had a lot of custom maps then, and there could be a huge difference in familiarity of the map between a new member and a veteran member.
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                • #9
                  Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                  Thank you for a solid stance on this. I've gotten very tired of watching CTs fire randomly into the corners of the shed on compound, hoping that a T is there. I honestly wish the engine allowed for a random placement of hostages in a specific area. That would put a stop to this quickly.

                  If I had a nickel, on compound, everytime I heard the CTs say:
                  "Got a flash-bang?"
                  "Nah, you?"

                  I'd be a rich man. There are other more effective tactics to use rather than firing blind into a wall, praying for a kill.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                    1 b iii wins.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                      It isnt blind, though. behind the door is a good foot of space, which is plenty of room for burst firing long range weapons. See the front of the car? behing the headlight, you can shoot straight in, behind a ct. You know those 2 spots? Very frequant for t's to be there. You know those spots? hosties are never there by default.

                      I wont do it when root is around or i have a shotgun. Im just defending a tactic (keyword).

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                      • #12
                        Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                        The problem with saying the hostages are "never there" is that you wouldn't know in real life.

                        The problem with the previous sentence is that, if you rigorously apply that standard to gameplay, you kill it, as it essentially requires unreasonable intel be gathered before each and every engagement... intel that does happen in real life, but not in seven minutes.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                          Well, to get off the subject of shooting into corners...

                          What about once the CTs have custody of the Hostis and are running for Hosti Rescue. I have shot a hosti(i dont think it was on purpose, but not sure) while chasing the CTs. I mean....I know that Terriorsts in a real life issue would not hessitate in doing so, but i have been kick for it countless times(Not sure if it was the Rooter with an itchy finger towards my monkeyness or just an autokick).

                          -Monkz
                          Allen: Yeah, you're right.
                          Monkerz: I think "that" in its self proves my intelligence greater than yours, thus joo have just been pwnt by Monkerz!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                            Originally posted by MONKERZ
                            Well, to get off the subject of shooting into corners...

                            What about once the CTs have custody of the Hostis and are running for Hosti Rescue. I have shot a hosti(i dont think it was on purpose, but not sure) while chasing the CTs. I mean....I know that Terriorsts in a real life issue would not hessitate in doing so, but i have been kick for it countless times(Not sure if it was the Rooter with an itchy finger towards my monkeyness or just an autokick).

                            -Monkz
                            I wouldn't kick or slay a TG'er under those circumstances, and if I kicked you by accident, you'd know about it as soon as you rejoined the server. If I'm speccing and I see intentional hostage wounding, I'll drop the hammer on anyone - guest, regular, or supporting member. I'll put money on it being an autokick, especially as you say it keeps happening.

                            Root
                            BFCL TF2 league admin

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                            • #15
                              Re: Weapons fire and hostages

                              actually random hostage placement is possible!


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