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  • Firing into hostage areas.

    This is a no-no. No CT is allowed to fire into a hostage area when they have no exact information on where those Ts may be located. Blind firing into a hostage area in hopes of hitting an enemy is about as far from tactical as you can get.

    Now, here's my point: A Terrorist gives up any reasonable expectation of "safety" in a hostage area when he blatantly makes his location known. This is further emphasized if the T is using his position to block/close a door when it's opened by the Ts. Hostages need to be rescued yes, but no CT should ever have to choose between his own life and a hostage.

    Hence, on Compound: A T was closing the door over and over, blocking us from being able to flash or enter the room. I knew exactly where he was so I told my team "If he blocks that door again, we fire upon his position." He then went down in a hail of gun-fire. And we get the "No firing into a hostage area." I stated our reasons and left the rest for the forums. So here I am.

    Like I said, once you've given your position away in a "safe" area, your life expectancy just went down to about -10 seconds. If I ever have to choose between my death and that of a faceless hostage: I'm going to be the one walking away. That said, I will not put hostages in danger if there isn't a need for it.

  • #2
    Re: Firing into hostage areas.

    *sigh* again, i will post my thoughts, and a mild argument will last for a few posts. I believe that firing through walls into a well known T hiding spot is perfectly fine. You can see hosties on the map, and make out landmarks to tell you where the spot is and the hostie isnt. In a recent game I killed xero i think by shooting next to the door in a way that was nowhere close to the hosties. He died. If I hadnt, he may have killed me, low on health, and my teammate, also lowish on health, and we might have lost. The T's have 1 spot to fire on, and the advantage of camping. So we as CT's should take every opportunity available to win the game without hurting the hosites. Now, i realize that there is a chance that the hosties moved or some weird source physics thing happening, but I believe that it is a judgement call, and if the person knows what they are doing, does not hurt the hosties, and wins the round for it, then they should not be reprimanded.

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    • #3
      Re: Firing into hostage areas.

      honestly, this "no firing in hostage area" is like saying "oh poor ts, you guys have the disadvantage, why don't i increase your winning probability by setting some rules in your favor"

      okay, so maybe i'm being a brat as usual but usually i'd know a map front and bac enough that i know where the hostage placements are. i analyze my blind spots before i fire.

      well, i don't know..."i'm" okay with hostie-room firing...but that's just me.

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      • #4
        Re: Firing into hostage areas.

        Fenix the problem is that the hostages took multiple hits from CT's. Perhaps the T behind the door was wrong to keep closing it, but it's possible to deal with him by getting a guy on the roof, or by standing just the other side of the door from him, and aiming for his knees. I'm not saying that you personally wounded any hostages, but I was in the hostage shed at the time, and I say again, the hostages took MULTIPLE HITS FROM CT's. That is firing blindly into a room containing people your team is supposed to be rescuing, and thats not on.

        Root
        BFCL TF2 league admin

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        • #5
          Re: Firing into hostage areas.

          You know, when I jump on the server, I'm usually on the Terrorists side, and honestly, I was not aware there was a bar on firing into hostage areas.

          If the T's are supposed to hold the objective, which as far as I can tell, is to keep the CT team away from the hostages, doesn't a silly rule like that stack the deck against the CTs?

          I think we can trust the CT team to respect the fact that the hostages are the objective, and they aren't going to unnecessarily endanger the hostage's lives. In the event that someone fires blind into the hostage areas, they should be warned that a hostage death defeats the objective, then punted if they don't fall in line.

          Ok, what crisis is next? World Peace?

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          • #6
            Re: Firing into hostage areas.

            Originally posted by Nightfire
            honestly, this "no firing in hostage area" is like saying "oh poor ts, you guys have the disadvantage, why don't i increase your winning probability by setting some rules in your favor"

            okay, so maybe i'm being a brat as usual but usually i'd know a map front and bac enough that i know where the hostage placements are. i analyze my blind spots before i fire.

            well, i don't know..."i'm" okay with hostie-room firing...but that's just me.
            From the rules :

            What are your guidelines for hostage treatment?
            It's important for everyone to realize that hostages are an important objective in this game. Terrorists are supposed to protect the hostages. After all, isn't that what is keeping the ct's from just b blowing them up? CT's are to rescue them. Therefore, terrorist "hostage wounding" is forbidden.
            Nightfire your point is the wrong way round. Allowing the CT's to injure the hostages increases their winning probability because those nasty T's have gone and put them in a room and guarded them, instead of leaving them alone in a big field.

            As the rules state quite clearly, the CT's should NOT be harming hostages. I don't remember who kept shutting the door tonight on compound but I thought it was ok, because they only did it the once. It wasn't a permenant obstruction like the barrels in militia being used to block the door from the kitchen to the garage. Kill the T and the door can be opened. I don't like this trend of late to disregard the hostages in favour of killing the T's that are guarding them. The idea is that the CT's clear the room using flashbangs and accurate gunfire. Thats what I try to do, and it works often enough.

            Root
            BFCL TF2 league admin

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            • #7
              Re: Firing into hostage areas.

              I will kick any CT that I see blindly shooting or throwing nades into a room with hostages.

              Good gads! I hope I never see a CT doing this in real life!
              It's a game. Keep it real. Keep it fun.

              -Keith

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              • #8
                Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                What about boosting a CT onto the roof with a flashbang to blind and take out the T closing the door? I think it would be a better alternative in this case than spamming the door.
                Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
                Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

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                • #9
                  Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                  If i see a gun poking out from behind a door, it's fair game if i can kill him without hitting a hostage. If you can see it take it out.


                  - -

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                  • #10
                    Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                    Originally posted by cookietester
                    Fenix the problem is that the hostages took multiple hits from CT's.
                    And in real life hostages get wounded in a fire-fight. The point is that we don't out them at unecessary risk as in blind firing into their room. But if you enter a room and a T is hiding behind a hostage: you take the T out. You don't put your own life above that of a nameless hostage.

                    There may have been better ways to handle it, but I didn't know that the entire T team was in there. For all I knew there may have been one trying to flank us at that moment from the rear. I made a choice I thought was valid, and I'll do it again.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                      So door blocking is against the rules? Good thing y'all told me before my next militia... i was gonna block the door with the car ;) but barrels should be fine, since those can be destroyed...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                        Originally posted by Karkianman101
                        So door blocking is against the rules?
                        No, just don't block a door with your meat body, then try and use the "no firing into a hostage area" as a defense when someone blows your brains out the back of your skull.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                          No, i mean with inanimate objects.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                            makes sense to me now. from now on, i will not fire into hostage room.

                            Originally posted by K2_the_Turtle
                            I will kick any CT that I see blindly shooting or throwing nades into a room with hostages.

                            Good gads! I hope I never see a CT doing this in real life!
                            same here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Firing into hostage areas.

                              Define blindly. Will you kick me for shooting at a specific spot where hosties wont be hit that t's often hide? I need to know, since I apparently have to change my style of play to whoevers on.

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