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  • "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

    Military Crackdown On Stunt Flying

    I just read that article and thought of PCS.

    Regarding pilots in the military:
    "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness," said Richard A. Cody, a four-star general who holds the Army's No. 2 job. "We want them to be aggressive but also disciplined, so they don't get themselves in an envelope they can't get out of."
    The same is true for PCS at TG. Our gameplay style requires discipline, but it allows for aggressiveness. It does not allow for recklessly abandoning one's objective.

    If I push limits for the sake of pushing limits (reckless abandon), I'm out of line and PCS here will feel the pain, just as the crew did.

    If I push limits (aggressiveness) for the sake of my teammates' safety and my objective's completion, and only when it's necessary that I do so for those sakes (discipline), then PCS will continue to thrive here (moreso than some of you have seen in your time here thus far), just as does this country's Army.

    Just food for thought. I thought it was an interesting, even if imperfect, parallel.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

    Queue CS_Compund last night.

    I'm on terrorists, first round, begin: I move to my little camping spot to the right where I can hear approaching CTs and still see the shed.

    The rest of my team proceeds to move as far forward as possible. So I ask "Why is our entire team so far up." And I hear back "They can't get past us without us knowing. We have all the good sniper points."

    So I think to myself: "Ok, I can live with that."

    So I spend the next 9 rounds flashing around that corner and (with great help from Dabe), murdering any CTs that come that way.

    But then I realize, that they go all that way up without anyone from my team giving any kind of warning that they were coming. No wait, there was one person: Dabe. The guy everyone bitches about (including me) is calling out for when I should flash and how many are coming. And when someone did take the time from cutting down CTs to inform anyone who got through, it was usually "action on the right side."

    Next time marines shotgun rush a hive, I'm going to use that. Just kind of non-chalant about it: "Yea... there's some action at the hive."

    We won that map by a landslide, but I was not particulary pleased it turned into a twitch fest (as compound always seems to).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

      This, in whole, is the reason I am leaving CSS. I developed my skills around non-twitching methods to employ my CSS PCS tactics and then I am bombarded and surrounded totally by twitchers and non-PCS people.

      I figure the more mediocre game of BFDC or the more exciting, yet intelligent game of NS will numb my senses untill I pass out in the bed at night feeling fulfilled and satisfied in my gaming needs.

      -Mom
      Yer Mom /O>

      To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

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      • #4
        Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

        This place hasn't been hardcore PCS in...well ever since CS:S came out. The level of play was on the rise for a bit but has now slumped back to "only slightly better than pub play".

        If you timewarped everyone playing now back to 1999 and we continued playing the way we are now, most people here wouldn't be allowed on the server.

        Its not the way it should be, and I don't expect it to be ever again.
        I play here for different reasons now.
        Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
        Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

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        • #5
          Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

          Originally posted by GhostintheShell
          This place hasn't been hardcore PCS in...well ever since CS:S came out. The level of play was on the rise for a bit but has now slumped back to "only slightly better than pub play".

          If you timewarped everyone playing now back to 1999 and we continued playing the way we are now, most people here wouldn't be allowed on the server.

          Its not the way it should be, and I don't expect it to be ever again.
          I play here for different reasons now.
          Well how about pushing the standards back up?

          Root
          BFCL TF2 league admin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

            I feel its pretty difficult to give the players on the server an edict to "be more hardcore PCS".

            I'm open to suggestions for improving things, but I think the best way to raise the bar is to lead by example. If half your team charges off toward the enemy at round start you can try to convince them otherwise but you can also hang bang and try to work with whoever's left.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

              Sorry to start into a whole thing about the state of play on the servers. (Again.) But the last post Yer Mom wrote here in this thread sort of hit home when I read it, another decent player lost due to the same things that have been killing my enthusiasm.

              In my opinion Root, I don't know how you can tirelessly steward the server the way you do and you still seem to have a good time. I protect our way of playing as best I can, but I've reached a point where I just want to come on and enjoy playing properly and not put up with the hassle of fighting the tide. You know what I mean? The best games I have now is when the server is full of supporting members and at least one good admin.
              Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
              Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                Originally posted by GhostintheShell
                In my opinion Root, I don't know how you can tirelessly steward the server the way you do and you still seem to have a good time.
                The first part is simple. I am teh Root. The good time comes from all the women and booze and oops! Sorry - wrong conversation. The fun comes when the server has PCS minded players on, who haven't turned up just to blow off some steam and kill people. Most if not all players here do that from time to time. They join the server for a laugh rather than to play PCS. Its not unknown for me to leave when that happens.

                Originally posted by GhostintheShell
                The best games I have now is when the server is full of supporting members and at least one good admin.
                To take your points in reverse order, there are no bad admins here. Period.

                Some supporting members appear to be a part of the lack of PCS on the server. I will not start naming names even if you PM me or sell me your children. It's not always the same ones either. I've made posts about careless random weapons fire in hostage rooms, but still supporting members are amongst those putting nades amonst hostages, and shooting in through the garage door on militia. I've made posts about lack of relevant communication, but still I never know where the bulk of my team is going at the start of a round, or where they've spotted the enemy.

                I've had members trying to dictate to me when I join a game and immediately spawn with the bomb, I've seen whole teams of members support the bomber by being nowhere in sight when the bomber gets shot and my most infuriating one of all, dumping the bomb on another team mate "because I've got a scout". That's about as solid an arguement as I'm going to buy a new car because you have brown hair. On the other hand, I've seen random pubbies drop into captains games and fully support their team. I've seen a lot of random pubbies of late following the server rules without being immature or abusive. I'm sure you have had good games with supporting members, but lets not kid ourselves that just because someone pays up each month, that they automatically play PCS. I suspect that sometimes the person in question is just having an off day - we all get them, but I also suspect that some pay for a reserved slot, and wouldn't complain if we were less into PCS and more into get kills.

                There are some very PCS focused players here, and some of the pubbies that drop by have the potential too. I was playing last night, and Swoop and I had a team of fragmonkeys wearing thunderboots(tm), and the other team was as bad, especially the ones that kept coming into our spawn on office. So Swoop and I basically shut the rest of the team out. We planned and communicated. We executed said plan, and communicated. Eventually one or two of our team noticed our survival rate was higher than most of our team, and started listening and following. There are more (and better) ways to encourage PCS than a slay a kick and a ban.

                Root
                BFCL TF2 league admin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                  Originally posted by cookietester
                  dumping the bomb on another team mate "because I've got a scout".
                  If anything, the scout would be a GOOD person to carry the bomb as scouts tend to stay at the back of the group. The bomb carrier should never be at the front of a team. Your "Command" staff should have a higher survivability than your average grunt.

                  This is why I get angry when the bomb carrier says "follow me." If he's at the front and gets shot in the face, not only has the bomb been thrown 6 feet in front of your team, you also have no idea what his plan actually was.

                  Just an excerpt from TheFeniX's mind: PCS is going in the crapper because everyone believes they've got it down. They now believe that boundaries don't apply. In their mind, they are playing PCS. They've been here long enough and have heard about "true" PCS having no defined lines/rules. They believe they can play it and are failing.

                  They fail everytime they push out from their spawn without leaving any tiered defense structure. They fail everytime they don't communicate enemy movements/headcounts. They fail everytime they push that boundary without a flash hoping to kill that attacker that just popped his head out.

                  Almost all the failing I see are pointed at defenders. Attackers have to be organized and all TG members know this. Defenders buy time is usually very quiet. Everyone thinks they know what to do and it's not until they keep getting their butts handed to them (sometimes not even then) will they re-evaluate their situation.

                  I mean, how many times on Italy will the T's stick their heads out to take pot shots at the CTs only to have them blown off? You've failed if CTs make it upstairs and you have only 1/3 of your team left.

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                  • #10
                    Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                    The thing about PCS is it's hard to play. Some people just wanna go fire shots off and have fun like monkeys. That's fine just don't do it at everyone else's expense. Go to the other server if your not feeling like PCS.

                    I think we need to bring back a server that is designated PCS ONLY. Make it a private server, except give the password out on the forums here. That way we avoid the random pubbies jumping in.


                    - -

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                    • #11
                      Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                      It pisses me off so much when this happens. I will clearly state several times "I am at apartments" "I am taking fire" "They are all here" "HELP! DEFEND APTS!!!" *dies*. Then when I die I hear people asking "Where was he? how did he get shot?" and then half my team dies because they didnt listen. Or when me and 2 others say "B" as all the t's rush out to B, and the rest of the team is silent. We die? They are still ALL watching A. Only when the bomb is planted do they go "Oh. Its B", and by then the t's have set up defense, and they win the match 9/10 times in that situation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                        Originally posted by Karkianman101
                        It pisses me off so much when this happens. I will clearly state several times "I am at apartments" "I am taking fire" "They are all here" "HELP! DEFEND APTS!!!" *dies*. Then when I die I hear people asking "Where was he? how did he get shot?" and then half my team dies because they didnt listen. Or when me and 2 others say "B" as all the t's rush out to B, and the rest of the team is silent. We die? They are still ALL watching A. Only when the bomb is planted do they go "Oh. Its B", and by then the t's have set up defense, and they win the match 9/10 times in that situation.
                        I somewhat agree with this.

                        There tends to be a lot of chatter that isn't always helpful. Let's say that half of the defenders (I'll talk CTs on defuse for simplicity) take up around site A and the rest are at site B. I'm helping to defend A. If I hear someone yell out B, all that tells me is he said B. It does not say he needs reinforcements or how many opponents he sees.

                        Effective communication is needed, not just communication. And do this before you engage the enemy whenever possible.

                        It's much more effective to tell your teammates not only the site you are defending, but which position. Then provide the intel of "two Ts spotted in long hall". Use the radio commands to call for reinforcements. Using the radio commands whenever possible helps to remove some of the chatter on voice comms.

                        So, in the end what I'm trying to say is that we all need to learn to be more effective in our communication. Just because your teammates calls out a letter does not mean that the whole team needs to converge there. Learn the radio commands, make certain commands binds.
                        |TG-12th| asch
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                          I'm curious about why TS is not used, in favor if ingame voice. Teamspeak does not seem to conflict with Steam in any way, and frankly, the improved communication would allieviate alot of the headaches we seem to be suffering lately.

                          Everything that comes across via the ingame voice is garbled-if I didn't hear Root on TS, I'd think root speaks some hybrid gibberish/feedback dialect that only other Admins can understand.

                          Of course, now I know that is the case. LOL!

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                          • #14
                            Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                            I have never had one problem understanding voice coms in game from a player with:
                            1. a decent microphone with the volume set correctly
                            2. a firm grasp of the English language

                            I've also heard the same comment from other players like Wyzcrak, in that communication in game might not have the best codecs, but they work. If you're the only one who can't understand what is going on over voice-com, then that's your issue.

                            Plus, it's extremely hilarious hearing Root say "Ga-ra-j. They are in the ga-ra-j!"

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                            • #15
                              Re: "There's a difference between aggressiveness and recklessness"

                              The Texan is laughing at the British guy's sound. Bring on the locusts.

                              Yes, effective communication is a learned skill no less than is snipering or checking corners as you move.

                              In NS, where you have an entire map (not two rooms) to take or protect, such effective communication is critical, as an entire team responding to one member of the opposition (being described by a teammate as "OMG THEY'RE COMING!!") can cost a team control of the map for the few seconds it can take for momentum to be lost. It's always satisfying when my teammate describes an approaching force by referencing their count and their loadout, not just their mere approach, be it NS or CSS.
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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