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  • Too far on Harvest?

    Last night while playing Harvest there was a lot of discussion about what is considered rushing and kill-hunting on Harvest. Yes, I know there are no zones anyone should consider safe on a map. But what do the rest of you consider to be rushing or kill-hunting on the Harvest map?

    Do you think that the T's are playing appropriately when a group of them repeatedly is going to the top of the large mountain in the center of the map when no hosties are mobile. This happened to us as CT's round after round after round last night. We disagreed with the T's and said we'd bring it up in the forum for discussion. So where is considered generally too far forward on this map for the T's to be without them to be considered kill-hunting?

    Ghost

  • #2
    Re: Too far on Harvest?

    I think that anywhere you can't see the hostage house should be considered out of bounds for Ts and anywhere you can't see it should be rushing (because by that point you've obviously disregarded your objective). As well, if you're not actively defending the house, that should be considering kill hunting.

    Just my 2 cents, I'm sure other people will most likely disagree with most if not all of that (what there is to disagree with, anyways).

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    • #3
      Re: Too far on Harvest?

      Originally posted by Noel Cower
      I think that anywhere you can't see the hostage house should be considered out of bounds for Ts
      That my man is the truth. Unless its only like one guy to see which way the cts are comingand is going to go back to the house when he has spotted their position. And the other 6 are staying at the house. Even thats pushing it in my opinion. But yeah if it was the whole team they are completely disregarding the hosties. Kinda like what happened earlier today on militia this one guy kept asking for back-up outside and on the roof, said that he was doing his objective by preventing the cts from coming in the front door. HELLO! There are three other entrances in the back and he was the only one on the top. So sure...... Im going to go outside, LEAVE THE HOSTAGES, just so I can get 2 guys when we can wait it out and have a better chance on in the kitchen / garage.

      O well thats just my 2 cents :D
      |CS:S Development Team|

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      • #4
        Re: Too far on Harvest?

        It was really ridiculus last night. I can't add much more to what was said, but it seems like the people who complained on Tuesday were the people russhing on Wednesday. How hippocritical.

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        • #5
          Re: Too far on Harvest?

          I responded to a post earlier about this, but root felt it was inappropriate. Probably how I said though, you know me.

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          • #6
            Re: Too far on Harvest?

            If you are communicating with your team, and working towards your objective, the hill shouldnt be an issue.

            That being said, that is pushing the limits of your ability to fall back if conditions near the hostages go bad.

            I have seen some new faces on the servers lately, many jumping my case for "rushing." After I have just explained to them that I am moving to the water/gas tank on the hill to recon the middle and far sides...with explicit information that I will be falling back once I have made contact with the opfor or the house calls targets in the hay field.

            I believe the majority of these issues would be easily solved if people would simply read the SOP.
            If it isn't PCS, whats the point?
            with any questions or concerns.
            |


            Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.



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            • #7
              Re: Too far on Harvest?

              I think the nature of Harvest lends to proper defending of the house happening quite far from the house. I'll take Noel's area one step further... If you can't shoot a <i>spot which is visible from the house</i> then you're too far.

              Beginning of game, corn, barn, and far left hayfield is fair game. Anything except CT spawn. End game, when there are few T's left, you better have your scout on a view to the house (or hostages if they've moved), or your shotty in breathing range of the hosties.

              The whole point of that map is that there are lots of hiding spots, and it's impossible to cover the map. Never knowing what hit you is the norm.

              T's camping the house are suicidal, as are T's staying only in house and side yard.


              --
              Shroom
              -- Shroom
              I tried smoking mushrooms once. Couldn't keep the pizza lit.

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              • #8
                Re: Too far on Harvest?

                Shroom, thats a little wide imho. I think the limit should be the hay by the house, the beginning of the plateau, and the garage and septic/fuel tank.

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                • #9
                  Re: Too far on Harvest?

                  Originally posted by Karkianman101
                  Shroom, thats a little wide imho. I think the limit should be the hay by the house, the beginning of the plateau, and the garage and septic/fuel tank.
                  These are exactly the spots I'd think are suicidal. CT's just expect you there, and wait to pick you off.

                  --
                  Shroom
                  -- Shroom
                  I tried smoking mushrooms once. Couldn't keep the pizza lit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Too far on Harvest?

                    Originally posted by shroompicker
                    I think the nature of Harvest lends to proper defending of the house happening quite far from the house. I'll take Noel's area one step further... If you can't shoot a spot which is visible from the house then you're too far.

                    Beginning of game, corn, barn, and far left hayfield is fair game. Anything except CT spawn. End game, when there are few T's left, you better have your scout on a view to the house (or hostages if they've moved), or your shotty in breathing range of the hosties.

                    The whole point of that map is that there are lots of hiding spots, and it's impossible to cover the map. Never knowing what hit you is the norm.

                    T's camping the house are suicidal, as are T's staying only in house and side yard.
                    With the huge, wide-open nature of Harvest, this seems very reasonable to me. I don't know if it will work, though. A large defensive perimeter is easier for a group of CTs to punch through...

                    I think this is a very good description of how to determine "boundaries", though. It's all about your ability to defend the objective according to the situation at hand.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Too far on Harvest?

                      it shouldn't matter if the ct break through on one side or the other, if there are 2 t snipers on the really big hill in the middle then when the cts go for the house they are all going to die before they reach it with bullets in thier back. just because you can't reach out and poke a hostage dosen't mean your not gaurding them.
                      frowning takes 47 muscles, and smiling only take 17, but sitting there with a zombie like stare on your face takes 0, we have a winner.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Too far on Harvest?

                        Originally posted by CingularDuality
                        With the huge, wide-open nature of Harvest, this seems very reasonable to me. I don't know if it will work, though. A large defensive perimeter is easier for a group of CTs to punch through...
                        That's a tactical decision on the part of the T's. :) We don't deserve land mines for this.

                        On that tactical note, maybe a cluster of T's with autoguns who stay in eyeshot of the house combined with scouts who wander the whole map is the reasonable solution. Depending on what the CT's are doing, you could adjust the numbers.

                        I really believe that the genius of this map is that one team member doing smart hit-and-runs can descimate the enemy, and a smart player hearing shots whizz by him knows how to hide and communicate with his team where the bullets are coming from to get himself out.

                        For the sake of experimentation, can we drop the boundaries completely for a little while, and do tournament-style PCS? That would at least stop the constant bitching about rushers, which I think on Harvest on this server is the main thing that stops fun play.

                        --Shroom
                        -- Shroom
                        I tried smoking mushrooms once. Couldn't keep the pizza lit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Too far on Harvest?

                          The problem is that within a week of seeing someone post on this forum, they're coming into server 2 and telling people who I know can play PCS that the only thing important on server 2 is that you play tactically.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Too far on Harvest?

                            Originally posted by shroompicker
                            For the sake of experimentation, can we drop the boundaries completely for a little while, and do tournament-style PCS?
                            There is no tournament style PCS. There is PCS, and that is it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Too far on Harvest?

                              Originally posted by Cerevox
                              it shouldn't matter if the ct break through on one side or the other, if there are 2 t snipers on the really big hill in the middle then when the cts go for the house they are all going to die before they reach it with bullets in thier back. just because you can't reach out and poke a hostage dosen't mean your not gaurding them.
                              I've going to pick answer B - false.

                              I've seen the CT's not only break through on one side, but do it so well that the T's suddenly realised the hostages were down in the hay bales trying to get up to the rescue point.

                              I'm starting to believe that

                              a) Many people who post here lack a basic command of the english language
                              b) They have the memory retention of a goldfish
                              c) They believe rules are for others

                              Try this :

                              We require the T's to GUARD the HOSTAGES, COMMUNICATE with their TEAM, FOLLOW the rules as outlined in the SOP forum and as explained by the admins.

                              You CANNOT do this on harvest and be camping practically on top of the rescue point.
                              BFCL TF2 league admin

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