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  • CS_Covert

    Correct me if Im not naming it correctly...the map with the aquarium in it.

    I formally request its removal from rotation, and even the server.

    It is nothing but a deathmatch map. There is no way to extract the back set of hostages without killing all of the terrorists first. (Or if they go afk in the vents.)

    With luck, it is possible to extract the first set, but I have yet to see the second set extracted.

    While it can be a fun map at times, it really has little to no PCS value.
    If it isn't PCS, whats the point?
    with any questions or concerns.
    |


    Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.




  • #2
    Re: cs_covert

    While it can be a fun map at times, it really has little to no PCS value.
    I had great success leading a team on this map, it takes careful planning. Going a bit far to say it has no pcs value.


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    • #3
      Re: cs_covert

      Originally posted by Vulcan View Post
      I had great success leading a team on this map, it takes careful planning. Going a bit far to say it has no pcs value.

      Great success as a T perhaps.
      If it isn't PCS, whats the point?
      with any questions or concerns.
      |


      Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: cs_covert

        It would be possible to do (rescue back hosties), if you could take hosties through the vents. Until then, you will probably never see it happen unless the CTs are totally not paying attetion to the game or they are lost.
        "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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        • #5
          Re: cs_covert

          If I'm last T I'm near second set you have to kill or be killed. Unless You incorporate rope to tie me with. Thats the objective. No rescue.



          FUN FUN

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          • #6
            Re: cs_covert

            I can agree with Ouija in that I've never seen the CT's win this map by rescuing hosties. It's always come down to the elimination of the other team. But I'm with Vulcan in seeing it's PCS value. I still have hope that it IS possible.
            | | |

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            • #7
              Re: cs_covert

              No infact as a CT I personally rescued all the hostages. Because it looks daunting doesn't mean it has no pcs value.


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              • #8
                Re: cs_covert

                I agree with ouija. This map is a thorn in the side of the PCS server.



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: cs_covert

                  It IS possible to rescue all hostages, yes. But due to their placement, it either requires 1) all Ts eliminated 2) no Ts on their objective. If the Ts stick to their objective, then there is no way at all to extract the hostages without killing everyone. Considering the last hostages are in the very back of the map, -behind- T spawn? Now, I really enjoy this map, but from a PCS perspective I do think it's a bit lacking.

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                  • #10
                    Re: cs_covert

                    Here's a thorn for you guys /begin mild rant

                    Most CS maps end up in an OK Coral shootout.

                    I don't think there is anything unPCS about it, as a matter of fact, if T's are playing PCS style, they should end up in battles over the last hostages and CT's should not be rescuing all the hostages, period. They should be guarding the hostages and falling back to guard the remaining hostages if the first set gets taken.

                    Matter of fact, pretty much the only way to get all the hostages on CS maps is for the CTs to rush in, grab all the hostages they can while some T's are still out watching a perimeter before they an fall back. IMO, this sounds more deathmatchy than the shootouts over the hostages.

                    Hearing this:
                    Originally posted by Oujia
                    Great success as a T perhaps.
                    seems like the T's were doing their jobs quite well and it was a bad day for the CTs.

                    I've seen the CTs win and the Ts win. I don't think it's the map here that is the issue.

                    I'm getting a little bothered seeing good CS maps, especially ones with fun, challenging, and open layouts, like CS_Negotiator (which should be on the server), getting hammered on because they result in shootouts. Usually as a result of frustrating rounds by one team that isn't winning due to the players, not the map.

                    You don't want deathmatch shootouts over hostages? Remove Italy, remove office, remove eclipse, remove havanna, remove articstorm, and all the CS maps.

                    If you're gonna complain about a CS map don't do it because of a shootout scenario for crying out loud, do it because of bad NAVs or lack of routes or bugs. Don't do it because the T's are playing PCS and doing what they should be doing; defending the objective and keeping CTs from rescuing all the hostages. It should be very very very very very difficult for CTs to rescue all the hostages on any CS map on our server. I think it's time to get over any hangups that CT's somehow aren't completing their objective by killing the last T's than rescuing all the hostages. Most hostage situations on our objective based PCS server is going to come down to just that.

                    OK?

                    /end mild rant
                    .



                    [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                    "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                    - Wulfyn

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                    • #11
                      Re: cs_covert

                      Ok! :D
                      | | |

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: cs_covert

                        Originally posted by SloppyJoe View Post
                        Here's a thorn for you guys /begin mild rant

                        Most CS maps end up in an OK Coral shootout.

                        I don't think there is anything unPCS about it, as a matter of fact, if T's are playing PCS style, they should end up in battles over the last hostages and CT's should not be rescuing all the hostages, period. They should be guarding the hostages and falling back to guard the remaining hostages if the first set gets taken.

                        Matter of fact, pretty much the only way to get all the hostages on CS maps is for the CTs to rush in, grab all the hostages they can while some T's are still out watching a perimeter before they an fall back. IMO, this sounds more deathmatchy than the shootouts over the hostages.

                        Hearing this:

                        seems like the T's were doing their jobs quite well and it was a bad day for the CTs.

                        I've seen the CTs win and the Ts win. I don't think it's the map here that is the issue.

                        I'm getting a little bothered seeing good CS maps, especially ones with fun, challenging, and open layouts, like CS_Negotiator (which should be on the server), getting hammered on because they result in shootouts. Usually as a result of frustrating rounds by one team that isn't winning due to the players, not the map.

                        You don't want deathmatch shootouts over hostages? Remove Italy, remove office, remove eclipse, remove havanna, remove articstorm, and all the CS maps.

                        If you're gonna complain about a CS map don't do it because of a shootout scenario for crying out loud, do it because of bad NAVs or lack of routes or bugs. Don't do it because the T's are playing PCS and doing what they should be doing; defending the objective and keeping CTs from rescuing all the hostages. It should be very very very very very difficult for CTs to rescue all the hostages on any CS map on our server. I think it's time to get over any hangups that CT's somehow aren't completing their objective by killing the last T's than rescuing all the hostages. Most hostage situations on our objective based PCS server is going to come down to just that.

                        OK?

                        /end mild rant
                        Ive played this map both as a T and a CT. The map really only has 2 dynamics. Whoever controls the aquarium, and whoever controls the vents. Both of which are easily locked down by a good T team. In turn, once this is done, it turns into a fragmonkey map for the first 2 minutes while the CTs do what they have to do to get in...

                        Ill stand by my original post. The map isnt conducive to our style of play. It promotes deathmatch play.
                        If it isn't PCS, whats the point?
                        with any questions or concerns.
                        |


                        Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: cs_covert

                          Originally posted by ouija View Post
                          Ive played this map both as a T and a CT. The map really only has 2 dynamics. Whoever controls the aquarium, and whoever controls the vents. Both of which are easily locked down by a good T team. In turn, once this is done, it turns into a fragmonkey map for the first 2 minutes while the CTs do what they have to do to get in...

                          Ill stand by my original post. The map isnt conducive to our style of play. It promotes deathmatch play.
                          I thought from your original post the issue was hostage extraction and having to kill all the T's before performing an extraction of all the hostages, which is typical of CS maps... ?

                          Anyways... So now it's about the T's locking down the bottlenecks. Forgive me, but isn't that a recurring theme throughout many maps? Most of the maps we play have bottlenecks, except a couple more outdoorsy maps like parkhouse and kismayo. Dust 2, arcticstorm, office, spirits, havanna, italy, penstock, apartments, etc, all have bottlenecks that any 'good' defensive team can tighten down on and make it hard for the offensive team to overcome. And when the defenses are tightened on the bottlenecks, and the offense tries to get through the bottlenecks, doesn't that usually result in a battle?

                          Hmm, I really don't see anything unPCS about this general principle. Is it that there are too many T's dying on defending these bottlenecks to guard the hosties? If so, that's not a map issue, it's a player/plan issue. But by the comment about T's having it pretty on this map, is it a CT issue of gaining access to the building through the bottlenecks? Could you be more specific about what makes this map so different than all the others that have bottlenecks?
                          .



                          [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                          "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                          - Wulfyn

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: cs_covert

                            The bones of it is, not enough bottlenecks or areas of approach. Yes the T's can hold their tightest defense and have a very high chance of winning on this map but that doesn't mean they are invulnerable and the CT's are unable to get to the hostages. You have to contract and expand on this map a lot more than other maps.

                            As a CT on this map, if the T's are sitting on the hostages, the CT's have more ability to setup for smokes, flashes and HE nades. If done properly you can take the first 2 easily and then force the T's into the back room. I suppose it's all in the how but it takes very good planning and teamwork which probably means it's not going to play well with new people on the server. If need be just change up the map to the next in rotation and get on with something a bit easier.


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                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: cs_covert

                              Wow Joe! I like the map now. In fact put all the maps in rotation and lets play no favorites. That would make for some interesting planning. You got a point don't just try to get the hostages out, try to get to the 2nd set for the win. Of course after saving 1 of the sets :)



                              FUN FUN



                              FUN FUN

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