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Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

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  • Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

    Feel free to move this thread to tactics, but this is fairly important and this section gets the most traffic (Even more than the SOP's :-o)

    Lately on the CS:S servers, and even before, there are 2 things that have pestered the servers too much. Bad rushes, and window snipers (most notably at the A entrance in cbble and the walkway in compound). Now, both of these things are far more damaging/existant than they should be, and teams get slaughtered. So I will give a little informative guide/reguide on how to deal with or avoid these problems.

    Rushing: I'm sure you all know what I mean. Sending a mass of T'c/CT's blitzing out to catch an enemy with their pants down, or just catch them. Now, for something so, well, crude, people seem to be unable to grasp the simple and subtle eloquencies.
    -If there is a bomber, he should be in the middle, or on the side closest to the objective (in Aztec rushing the double doors, he should be on the left of the mass, with 2-3 people in front of him and to the right to clear out the second doors by the marker). In chateau, rushing A the bomber should be smack clean in the middle with 1-2 people at MOST in the water behind him. The rest should be evenly split on either side of the bomber with 1 each at his shoulder points. At that point all should move into the windows.
    -If there is someone with a Para, he should be either the first, second, or last person in the group. If he is in the middle, he can do nothing, as a para that isnt on full auto with half regard to target is nothing in a rush. In front, he will likely die, but if someone has merely a spawn pistol, they can stay right behind him to running catch his gun and continue. If he is second, the first is a meat shield. If he is last, this is only a counter flank, with maps like cbble B, where he would be the last one out the door, on his way to clear out the mid hall entrance. If he dies more than a few seconds in, ignore his gun. It SHOULD be nearly empty, and reloading has no place in a rush.
    -Make sure you have a usable secondary weapon. As said earlier, reloading has NO PLACE WHATSOEVER in a rush. If you run out of ALL bullets, you have better chance of killing with a knife, since by that time you should be within arms reach of an enemy and you likely have low health. Once you primary weapon runs out of ammo, immediately switch to your secondary and use it. If your secondary falls, and you are somehow too far from the enemy to have any chance of knifing, unless you are the last person knife out. The bane of rushes will be my last rush point, and it is why you should knife anyways.
    -Keep your finger ON that TRIGGER. If you are rushing, KEEP FIRING. ALWAYS. NEVER stop firing. EVER. PERIOD. Tonight I had a para in my group on cbble at B. When I died, I specced to see him die inside the tunnel (I was on the stairs), and I didnt once hear his gun fire. The map changed before I could chew him out. But even if you have a deagle, dont stop to focus your shots. Enough people sending shots in a general direction will kill anybody exposed.
    -When there is a rush, NOONE is exempt. This is most horrible at cbble and dust2. In dust2 I see people staying in the tunnel to fire. Guess what? 2 targets max are visible there: The guy immediately to the left (who should die instantly) and the guy behind the box, whose head is too small to attack head on. But people stay in the tunnels, ignoring the CT's to the right that slaughter the T's so often. At cbble and B, people stay on that big crate and fire out. But there is at most 1 CT that will be likely to be shootable from there. Dont go there during a rush. All this means that EVERYONE rushes. When there is a rush, unless you are otherwise ordered, even the god damn sniper should be firing his glock with the rest of them.
    -Do NOT STOP. EVER. PERIOD. END SUBJECT. Well, not end subject. I CANNOT say enough on this subject. Yes, teammates will die in a rush. In front of you. Brutally. From all directions. Their first step will end in a fall, and blood shall flow like the Nile. But you cant stop. Not to reload (shame!), not because you are afraid, and ESPECIALLY not to kill someone. If you cant kill them while you are moving, you cant kill them while you stand. Circle strafe outwards and kill them, but keep moving. This is THE most important point of rushing. DO. NOT. STOP. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a rush. And unless I am told otherwise by an admin, I will indeed slay people on my team who fail to commit to either this or the previous point, because last I checked that would be disobeying direct orders.

    That was the first and most frequant one. This next one is more a tactic than a basic skill. And its pretty simple

    Window Spam: I'm sure we've all been on compound as CT's and we go right, but get slaughtered by people in the windows. Or on cbble the bomber gets sniped running to A. It happens all the time, and people dont generally deal with it well. Maybe 1 or 2 guys max pop out and take pot shots, but the sniper (be it scout, m4, or ak) deals with them patiently 1 at a time. Teams get picked off or withered down. Then they lose after that. Heres a nice little counter. Everyone at once pops out and (depending on the material) showers or directs small controlled bursts on the window. If its a case like cbble where the window is surrounded by stone, everyone pops out at the exact same instant and starts bursting spurts of bullets through the window the sniper was seen at. He may fire back a little, but he will at least retreat. On maps like compound, though, its more complex. There are at least 2 windows, possible 4 if they shoot out the boards. This is different, and requires more thinking. You assign 3-4 people (the whole team if its small) to the walkway, and any remainders to the actual windows. 2 people fire controlled bursts into the actuall walkway window, whilst the other 2 just unload waves onto the metal on either side of the window. The remaining 1-3 people check the glass for a T. If they see him, all but one fire at him, and the 1 fires at the catwalk right next to the brick. If they fail to see one at the glass, they begin to spray the entire catwalk with bullets.
    The heart of this tactic is unity. Everybody with a gun fires. At best, one of the dozens of bullets will catch the guy in all the wrong places, and at worst he will leap back scared ****less, leaving you free to cross the danger zone. Use this tactic, and use it well.

    Both of these points have been on my mind for a while, and I just thought I should share with y'all. :)

  • #2
    Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

    These tactics arent hard to accomplish and are rather common

    They require teamwork though, and that can be a major downfall even around here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

      I know. Thats why it irks me that people cant do them. Even after I repeatedly say "EVERYONE rush out this door, noone stay behind", someone jumps onto the crate. Whether the rush fails or succeeds, I look back and see 2 or 3 people standing back there with their thumbs up their asses.

      These concepts arent complex in any way, but thats not enough for some people. I shouldnt have had to make this thread, but in game people arent learning.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

        My only critique with the tactics listed is that in a rush while it is important to rain bullets on the enemy simply holding down fire will simply enable the enemy to live longer. Sure, you might get the lucky headshot, but your chances are greatly increased if you attempt to line up your shot in between bursts of gunfire. I'm not saying you should stop, but lining up your shot and running/strafing/jumping is not that difficult. With some weapons it is possible to simply hold down fire and maintain lethal accuracy (p90) but most of the rifles lose much of their potency over time (ak47).

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        • #5
          Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

          Originally posted by Karkianman101
          Feel free to move this thread to tactics, but this is fairly important and this section gets the most traffic (Even more than the SOP's :-o)
          Moved to tactics. Yes the general forum gets the most traffic, but valid discussion like you've started here will increase the traffic in the other forums :)

          Root
          BFCL TF2 league admin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

            The sad, and yet disturbing part is that it will never be used.

            We all know it, but who will use it? We may attempt to, but everyone else will falter.

            Needs more hxc, sxe pcs

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

              Originally posted by Uchiha Obito
              My only critique with the tactics listed is that in a rush while it is important to rain bullets on the enemy simply holding down fire will simply enable the enemy to live longer. Sure, you might get the lucky headshot, but your chances are greatly increased if you attempt to line up your shot in between bursts of gunfire. I'm not saying you should stop, but lining up your shot and running/strafing/jumping is not that difficult. With some weapons it is possible to simply hold down fire and maintain lethal accuracy (p90) but most of the rifles lose much of their potency over time (ak47).
              Indeed. Exactly. However, people aim, forget to stop moving, and they wait to fire until their crosshairs shrink. Moving+Firing>Aiming+Firing. Preferably both should be done, but as is people only do 1 of them, and the former is more important. Once people start moving, then they should focus on aiming.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                Actually there is a balance to be had in Moving - Aiming - Firing. If your moving full speed don't expect to get a good shot in. Your aim is inaccuate. If you slow to a walk then you can move and get better aim. You can stop and track a target much easier and get a better shot. The hardest thing to learn is moving and stopping for a second to get a good shot, fire 1 or 2 times then move again. There are also certain points where holding a position is essential to success before moving out, usually to cover your team by throwing a flash or smoke grenade.

                A straight rush from spawn to bombsite includes 0 tactic and all twitch. However Rushing out of a door or hallway in order to suprise an enemy is more about tactics. Who covers which side? Who throws the smoke, flash or HE and where? These all pertain to the success of tactics rather than twitch.


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                • #9
                  Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                  But in a rush, if you stop then the surprise is lost, you block teammates, and you lose speed. In a rush, surprise, everyone being there, and being fast are the 3 main components. I cant count the number of times on a map like prodigy where at a guardhouse rush the bomber kept moving and slipped past the CT's, planting the bomb before they even knew what was happening.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                    In those instances like you mention, yes it's essential that everyone moves out and knows what they are doing. The reason people stop is because they aren't sure what exactly their doing or if they do, then they are afraid. In which case i'm on the comm telling them to move out.


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                    • #11
                      Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                      I think those are excellent tactics. One thing i might reccomend, maybe a night practice for TG on server 2 for the most common rush maps. ( cbble dust2 prodigy (long hall))

                      Maybe we could even set up a nightly practice for ramp advancing and hallway advancing?
                      " Logic always prevails...now where are my pants?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                        That's actually a good idea.

                        I'd be all for it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                          We can (and do) incorporate tactics into PCS training. Tactics will help players become PCS players. We have to start with the basics however. Before we can do advance by leapfrog, or a carefully laid field of smoke nades, or clearing a room with flashbangs, we need to get people into a habit of assigning roles to each player.

                          We can't do advanced stuff while bombers are saying things like "a couple of people go B, someone come with me long A, and the rest go short". When we have a situation where the team commander gives instructions like "Vulcan and 9v go to B, and hold the site until they kill you. Root take the bomber and go long A, rest of you go short A", *and* when this is the *normal* standard of play from PCS players, we can get to grips with the next level. It's all about walking before you run.

                          In the mean time, the more *quality* discussions we can have about tactics, the better.

                          Root
                          BFCL TF2 league admin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                            Ah, how I enjoy those days I get to call names and have people actually do what I say, instead of getting me killed when I have the bomb and am using a simple plan to get to Short A or whatever.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Two Much Needed Lessons on Tactics

                              Originally posted by Root
                              We can (and do) incorporate tactics into PCS training. Tactics will help players become PCS players. We have to start with the basics however. Before we can do advance by leapfrog, or a carefully laid field of smoke nades, or clearing a room with flashbangs, we need to get people into a habit of assigning roles to each player.

                              We can't do advanced stuff while bombers are saying things like "a couple of people go B, someone come with me long A, and the rest go short". When we have a situation where the team commander gives instructions like "Vulcan and 9v go to B, and hold the site until they kill you. Root take the bomber and go long A, rest of you go short A", *and* when this is the *normal* standard of play from PCS players, we can get to grips with the next level. It's all about walking before you run.

                              In the mean time, the more *quality* discussions we can have about tactics, the better.

                              Root
                              This also includes Intel. If 2 people make a distraction to site B yet nobody on the other team falls for it and they die from one person, the distraction failed. You won't know it unless your guys are communicating to the team that we only have one target here. The other teammates go running to site A for a very difficult battle.

                              There must be a goal if it's not getting to the bombsite, then it has to be something. Is it to distract, to confuse or to bait the enemy? Not all immediate goals are get to the bombsite. Strategies succeed when they include some of other conditions (ie confuse, distract, bait)

                              Example:
                              On penstock as a T, there are great possiblities for tactics. Straight rushes never work. You have to divert the attention of the enemy into more than one place. Very easily done with smokes. You can lay a smoke under the guardhouse on the left and fire a couple of rounds into the wall. Someone almost always comes to check it out. This always distracts the people above the guard house who are waiting for people out of the catwalk. The same can be done up top on the catwalk. It only takes one person and your team can successfully move through the right side opening and into the right guardhouse while the attention of the enemy is focused on the smoke and shots fired on the left guardhouse.


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