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  • Jumping

    I played in the TG CS:Source server for the first time ever a couple days ago, and it has become one of my favorites. A lot of people can't get used to the rules and flood the voice/chat channels with complaints, but I like it a lot.

    That being said, I had a few issues while I was playing. I am new to the maps, so over the course of three hours, I played on 5-6 brand new maps that I have never seen before. On "AAA," I apparently went too far forward while seeking a place to hide and cover bombsite B. With absolutley no warning from a team mate (or any TG affiliate), I see one of my teammates type and tell the other team to watch out for me because I am rushing forward. Does this not go against the whole teamwork principle?

    Later, I was attempting to defuse the bomb (on the same level), when a sniper started shooting at me. I spotted him approximately 30 yards in front of me, crouched behind a crate. I looked to my left and saw a crate within jumping distance, so I jumped for it (getting gunned down in the process, losing the game for my team). As soon as I die, the first thing I hear over the radio is that I shouldn't be "jumping to avoid fire." First of all, jumping behind an object is not the same as senselessly bunny-hoppping to throw of someone's aim. However, I politely explained that in "real life", if someone was shooting at me, I would dive for cover wherever I could get it, and that I would not simply just stand there and duel it out with them.

    Up to this point, things were fine: he stated his opinion, I stated mine. However, he then proceeds to tell what I would and wouldn't do in real life. This irritated the heck out of me, to have someone else tell me what MY actions would be in a real life situation. I let that one go, but it sure frustrated me.

    A couple rounds later, we were on Dust 2, a great map that we're all familiar with. I was a CT, guarding bombsite B. There had been no action in our area for quite a while, and I could here my team mates reporting action and requesting help at A. So I proceeded to move towards bombsite A, via the Terrorist spawn. I read the rules before I joined the server, and I clearly noted that while I was not allowed to camp/sit in the enemy spawn, I was permitted to pass through it quickly. This is exactly what I did. However, as I was rounding the corner into their spawn on my way towards bombsite A, lo and behold, there was a Terrorist sniper right in front me, but facing away from me to shoot guys coming out of our own spawn. So, I put my gun away and knifed him before he even knew I was there (it was the only knife kill on saw in the entire server for 3 hours!).

    I then moved straight throw and to bombsite A, where I assisted my team in killing the remaining terrorists and defusing the bomb. However, as soon as the next round started, the guy I knifed started giving me all kinds of crap about how I was "kill-hunting" and how I shouldn't have been in their spawn. I told him that I was merely passing through and that if he was there as I passed through to bombsite A, was I merely supposed to go quietly behind him and leave him alone as he sniped my teammates? He told me that I should have announced my presence with a smoke grenade first... I couldn't believe what he was saying... on a Tactical Gamer server, I'm supposed to smoke an area first to announce my presence, thus committing tactical suicide? I went on to tell him that if it was permitted for him to spend the entire round sniping from his own spawn, then he was fair game if I happened to be passing through it.

    Basically, he was whining because he got knifed from behind. I cna understand not liking getting killed like that. But is there really some TG rule that prevents me from a) passing very briefly through an enemy spawn, and b) engaging an enemy who is sniping from inside his own spawn?

  • #2
    Re: Jumping

    I will address the two questions that you asked towards the end of your post.

    1. You can go through the spawn of the enemy if the bomb has been planted and it is tactically sound to go there to get to the bomb site. There are only a couple maps where this really applies, but in the case of you on Dust 2, the bomb was not called down, rather they called for assistance. You than gave up defending your objective on B and now you are going against what this place is all about. You were not certain that the T’s plan was not to distract your team and than go to B. Long story short, that was a bad call. But as long as someone explains it, you may not have known.

    2. If you are getting fired upon from the enemies spawn – smoke em, I do not mean use a grenade either. If they decide to use their spawn to attack you (specifically on Dust 2) fire back! There is nothing anywhere that states you cannot defend yourself at any time. In the case of Dust 2, people think that if they fire from their spawn the CTs cannot fire back. Totally incorrect. Now if they are just sitting there planning and no fire is coming, it is in bad taste to start firing into spawn because of a poorly designed map.

    As for the knifing, I think it is a poor choice of weapons in most circumstances. As long as it takes to swing the knife, you could have probably killed 2-3 people with a M4. It is usually a weapon frag monkeys use to embarrass other players. Basically you are screwing your team because you may get the kill, but in return you will usually be killed before you can get you gun out or move to help your team. That being said, there are those really rare occasions where stealth is key and it might be useful.

    Sometimes simply joining the server and reading the MOTD will not answer all your questions about TG. Continue to read the forum, the SOPs are there and ask questions all the time. We are not here to criticize any new players, rather guide them along to the point that they can do the same. If you have a questions online, please do not hesitate to ask an Admin or a person wearing the PCS tag. They are our experts on the style of game play we love here.
    "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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    • #3
      Re: Jumping

      The short answer is... yes, there are rules against it.

      We're especially more adimant about certain rules with newcomers to our server. You'll find that as you play here longer and show an understanding of ability to adhere to our playstyle that you'll end up getting a lot more tactical freedoms.

      This doesn't mean that eventually you'll be able to rush out to enemy spawns, not that that's what you were doing, but it does mean that with with a little communication, teamwork, and planning...you'll have no problems getting to where you want to go.

      That being said, have patience. I understand what you were doing. I was that T sniper you knifed. I've done the same thing and got tons of flak for it. Well deserved too. I learned a lesson from it. You will too.

      But you have to understand that we see new people come and go...most of whom just can't handle our playstyle. So we're certainly very strict on any infractions we might percieve...it ensures a better game for the folks that have stuck around and those that are dedicated to the community.

      All that behind us, welcome to the forums! Glad to see you've registered. You'll find it easier to make friends if you don't come out the gate accusing people of whining or somesuch.
      | | |

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      • #4
        Re: Jumping

        Originally posted by TheBigC View Post
        I will address the two questions that you asked towards the end of your post.

        1. You can go through the spawn of the enemy if the bomb has been planted and it is tactically sound to go there to get to the bomb site. There are only a couple maps where this really applies, but in the case of you on Dust 2, the bomb was not called down, rather they called for assistance. You than gave up defending your objective on B and now you are going against what this place is all about. You were not certain that the T’s plan was not to distract your team and than go to B. Long story short, that was a bad call. But as long as someone explains it, you may not have known.
        First of all, thanks for responding. As to your post, I did not give all of the information that you are responding to above: I did not say whether the bomb was down, I did not say how far into the round it was, I did not say how many T's were left. To bring some clarity to the situation, the bomb was down (in A), there were only 4 of 8 terrorists left, and the rest of my teammates were also leaving B to support the others in A. Having all the information, I disagree with your assessment that it was a bad call.

        Originally posted by TheBigC View Post
        2. If you are getting fired upon from the enemies spawn – smoke em, I do not mean use a grenade either. If they decide to use their spawn to attack you (specifically on Dust 2) fire back! There is nothing anywhere that states you cannot defend yourself at any time. In the case of Dust 2, people think that if they fire from their spawn the CTs cannot fire back. Totally incorrect. Now if they are just sitting there planning and no fire is coming, it is in bad taste to start firing into spawn because of a poorly designed map.
        Although the guy I killed did not appreciate it, I was firing back! It would have been irresponsible to leave my post at B, going back towards our spawn, and then attempting to engage him at long range with my TMP (or anything else than a Scout at that range). Instead, I supported my teammates at B, told them I was going through the T spawn to help at A, and then "fired back" at the enemy sniper... with my knife.

        Originally posted by TheBigC View Post
        As for the knifing, I think it is a poor choice of weapons in most circumstances. As long as it takes to swing the knife, you could have probably killed 2-3 people with a M4. It is usually a weapon frag monkeys use to embarrass other players. Basically you are screwing your team because you may get the kill, but in return you will usually be killed before you can get you gun out or move to help your team. That being said, there are those really rare occasions where stealth is key and it might be useful.
        When I approached the sniper from behind, he was not aware of my presence at all. Instead of immmediately opening up on him with a rifle, pistol, or other firing weapons, I instead moved in closer to get a better idea of the situation: if there would have been another T right down the ramp at their spawn, my firing would have alerted him, meaning it's now 1 on 2, not a very solid tactic. However, once I surveyed the situation (for a good 4-5 seconds, without being noticed by the sniper)), I realized that he was completely alone and staring through his scope. It was absolutely no risk engage him. My personal opinion is that if a player comes into that situation, where he/she completely has the drop on another player, they have the right to choose how they want to kill them. If I come up behind someone and there is no risk in killing them with a knife, then they have just reaped the benefits of a poor tactical decision (not watching your back, using the boundaries for protection, etc.).

        That being said, this was one of those
        Originally posted by TheBigC View Post
        really rare occasions where stealth is key and it might be useful.
        Thanks again for responding, it's good to hear feedback.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jumping

          Atomic Dog, thanks for the welcome. I don't remember you being the guy I knifed, but maybe it was. Anyway, sorry for the "whiny/complaining" talk, it's nothing personal.

          I understand what you mean about seeing people come and go, because most people playing CS:S can't stand your rules or style of gameplay. Even in my short attendance to the server, I've seen more people than I can count come in, play one round, complain about the buytime, and then leave. They need to understand that there are literally thousands of servers out there that are willing to play their style of game, and that if they are dissatisdied with TG, then it's not going to be hard for them to find another server they'll love.

          Hopefully, for you guys (and the rest of us who enjoy TG), they'll just realize that and politely find somewhere else to play.

          Like I said, I'm sorry if I offended you,

          octorfunk

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          • #6
            Re: Jumping

            Originally posted by octorfunk View Post
            First of all, thanks for responding. As to your post, I did not give all of the information that you are responding to above: I did not say whether the bomb was down, I did not say how far into the round it was, I did not say how many T's were left. To bring some clarity to the situation, the bomb was down (in A), there were only 4 of 8 terrorists left, and the rest of my teammates were also leaving B to support the others in A. Having all the information, I disagree with your assessment that it was a bad call.
            If the bomb was down in A, you should have gone straight to A by the shortest route. If the guy continued to snipe, you don't have to engage; he was not at the objective, and he would have to go there at some point, and you could be waiting there to kill him as he approached.
            - Drake_Anra

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            • #7
              Re: Jumping

              Originally posted by nhammen View Post
              If the bomb was down in A, you should have gone straight to A by the shortest route. If the guy continued to snipe, you don't have to engage; he was not at the objective, and he would have to go there at some point, and you could be waiting there to kill him as he approached.
              Why are you trying to find any possible reason for me to do something different than what I did? Is it not possible that there is more than one right way to do something? Is it not possible for me to make a quick decision and decide that it was more tactically sound to approach my enemy from where he was least expecting it, rather than to come at him headlong where he is waiting to kill me?

              I did what I did, and it worked for my team. I would do the exact same thing again. And had I just left the sniper alone and gone to A via the route that everyone else is saying I should have, not only would I have lost the element of surprise, but I would have been exposed to the snipers' fire when I crossed the doorway he was aiming at. I can think of many more pro's than con's to my decision. I think we need a reminder that Counterstrike is just a video game, and it's really not worth arguing over.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Jumping

                Originally posted by octorfunk View Post
                Why are you trying to find any possible reason for me to do something different than what I did? Is it not possible that there is more than one right way to do something? Is it not possible for me to make a quick decision and decide that it was more tactically sound to approach my enemy from where he was least expecting it, rather than to come at him headlong where he is waiting to kill me?

                I did what I did, and it worked for my team. I would do the exact same thing again. And had I just left the sniper alone and gone to A via the route that everyone else is saying I should have, not only would I have lost the element of surprise, but I would have been exposed to the snipers' fire when I crossed the doorway he was aiming at. I can think of many more pro's than con's to my decision. I think we need a reminder that Counterstrike is just a video game, and it's really not worth arguing over.
                If the bomb is down, your team mates require immediate assistance. On our server, you'll proceed to them via the fastest route.
                BFCL TF2 league admin

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                • #9
                  Re: Jumping

                  Originally posted by octorfunk
                  I did not give all of the information that you are responding to.
                  This is a pretty mean thing to do when having a discussion with someone. You set BigC up with misinformation than "corrected" him with new material. If anything, it will make people less likey to respond to your posts in the future.

                  -Aaron

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                  • #10
                    Re: Jumping

                    Originally posted by octorfunk View Post
                    Why are you trying to find any possible reason for me to do something different than what I did? Is it not possible that there is more than one right way to do something? Is it not possible for me to make a quick decision and decide that it was more tactically sound to approach my enemy from where he was least expecting it, rather than to come at him headlong where he is waiting to kill me?

                    I did what I did, and it worked for my team. I would do the exact same thing again. And had I just left the sniper alone and gone to A via the route that everyone else is saying I should have, not only would I have lost the element of surprise, but I would have been exposed to the snipers' fire when I crossed the doorway he was aiming at. I can think of many more pro's than con's to my decision. I think we need a reminder that Counterstrike is just a video game, and it's really not worth arguing over.
                    You're forgetting that you're new here. Some of the people you're arguing with have been with community for several years...some of them are admins. You're not presenting any argument that any of us regs at TG have not heard. If you enjoy playing here, I suggest you respect the people here and just do as the admins say you should. Otherwise you won't find it very welcoming here. We offer a game style that you won't find anywhere else...and I'm sure this is the why you enjoy playing here. So I would be very mindful of the arguments you pick and the people you choose to argue.

                    If you really believe you're a good match for the community, show it by respecting our rules, admins and fellow players. Don't just show up out of the blue and pick fights. It's not a very good first impression.
                    | | |

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Jumping

                      Originally posted by nhammen View Post
                      If the bomb was down in A, you should have gone straight to A by the shortest route.
                      The shortest route is not always the soundest route. Some times I prefer going longer routes if “I KNOW" that I have enough time. If you can sneak a long way around and the T's are expecting you to come some shorter way you can pick them off from behind or even defuse without engaging because their attention is on another direction. (Of course this is dependant upon how many teamates you have left and the communication between them.)

                      Does not always work, especially if there are a lot of regular TG players, but I have seen and used this tactic used to win a few rounds.

                      But as always TG is about completing the objective or die trying and if you are new to the server then the regular TG/PCS players keep watch on you till they feel they can trust you. It is just a matter of too many people coming in and out of the server expecting Death Matches.

                      Stick around long enough and the TG server just gets better with the more you understand TG and PCS.



                      Play MySpace games? PeepsDepot.com to get all the Peeps you need for any game!

                      Wii# 5935-7920-5346-8754 | PS3:TheeShadyB | XBOX 360:TheeShadyB

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                      • #12
                        Re: Jumping

                        Originally posted by Quest Shady View Post
                        The shortest route is not always the soundest route. Some times I prefer going longer routes if I KNOW" that I have enough time.
                        We're discussing a bomb down, not a bomb planted. The fastest route is the correct one - your team mate(s) need assistance.
                        BFCL TF2 league admin

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                        • #13
                          Re: Jumping

                          Hmmmmm. Okay well umm sounds like I'd probably get banned from your server real soon. I play 1.6 and tend to never indulge in source unless I'm on lan, but anyway I was thinking of playing on the TG server and it seems like to me I can't just run around and shoot people and have fun...am I wrong?
                          http://webmasterp.com/tg/016|005|007|032.jpg

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                          • #14
                            Re: Jumping

                            Originally posted by Krosstika View Post
                            I can't just run around and shoot people and have fun...am I wrong?
                            Yes...extremely. We are a tacitcal server and we stick to the objectives. If you want to run around and shoot people, then maybe this is not the server for you:(
                            "Dirtboy is super awesome, and chicks dig him too!"- Everyone



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                            • #15
                              Re: Jumping

                              Originally posted by Krosstika View Post
                              it seems like to me I can't just run around and shoot people and have fun...am I wrong?
                              Not just our PCS server. Any of our servers. Running round shooting people is me-play, and is contrary to everything TG is about.
                              BFCL TF2 league admin

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