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A map flaw or not?

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  • #16
    Re: A map flaw or not?

    I think it`s a flaw. It seems unfair that T`s can essentially take free pop shots that CT`s can`t really counter without forcing themselves even more out into the open. Also like Nomad was saying, if the bomb were placed on the canal side of the boxes then the T`s would essentially be able to kill off any CT who tries to defuse the bomb. I disagree with the idea that popping smoke is a good enough tactic to prevent the T`s from shooting.

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    • #17
      Re: A map flaw or not?

      The only way to know whether or not this is a flaw is to message the map designer.

      Personally, I look at de_penstock as a highly perfected map. There are no shadows showing through floors, and everything plays very nicely. I find it hard to believe that the designer just accidently happened to put a 3 inch slit under the door at the exact level that a sniper's LOS normally is while standing.

      In any case, what difference does it make? The hole is there. If you don't like getting shot under it work out with your team how to get the door open. But that only gives their scouter that much more range of motion. And sorry Pepper and Ultima, but the idea of the terrorist team planting on the gulch side of B without causing some serious distraction or suppression is absurd. If CT aren't able to stop an early plant on B I would hope it's because they're busy fighting or being dead. Or the T's pulled something really impressive, and in that case kudos.

      Nah, I would put money on this being deliberate. Also, it works both ways. I have shot scouters under that door plenty of times from CT side.


      "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock

      "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God! =)' or 'Good God, morning! =(" - Blackalicious

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      • #18
        Re: A map flaw or not?

        I hate that slit in the door as do many other snipers. It tends to waste time because you can't get much out of it. If you use good positions, opening up the door is much more productive.

        I could change it but I don't think it's necessary. It's not really that much if you think about it. The ct's just have to stay out of view from it which isn't required to defend the objectives successfully.


        - -

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        • #19
          Re: A map flaw or not?

          Necromancy, for the win. For a second, I saw this and thought DB and Root were back.



          Atomic Dog: Do it, hit it with a crowbar!
          Delta: I don't have a crowbar.
          Atomic Dog: Hit it with the dog!

          Ednos: I just need to man up and get ready to have a testicle removed (which is what using Vista feels like)

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          • #20
            Re: A map flaw or not?

            one thing also, i think it can be viewed either way. but one thing to keep in mind is that ct's don't need to be right on top of the bomb to defuse. I proved that on dust 2 the other day when a t planted on the ledge ran to long a but couldn't see me defusing. so i think its all relative, but i do agree with Aesop.


            "Well Jayne, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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            • #21
              Re: A map flaw or not?

              Originally posted by Broly View Post
              one thing also, i think it can be viewed either way. but one thing to keep in mind is that ct's don't need to be right on top of the bomb to defuse. I proved that on dust 2 the other day when a t planted on the ledge ran to long a but couldn't see me defusing. so i think its all relative, but i do agree with Aesop.
              Although you are right about positioning and defusing, it`s not quite possible on Penstock. Even if you were in the ditch and looking up to defuse through the ground, a sniper would still be able to hit your arm/gun and potentially kill you.

              On another note, I recently was playing this map with Orthos, Laredo, and another player. Orthos was a T and was shooting underneath the garage door and was shooting out boxes/trying to hit either Laredo or myself whenever we were in that position. On one round he was doing this and I decided to fire back because I knew where he was. Orthos then responded in chat and said "blind firing will get you kick/banned. you guys should know better."

              In my opinion this was not blind fire because 1. I knew where he was and 2. if T`s are allowed to take advantage of this doors flaw (yes, flaw) then CT`s should be allowed to fire back without repercussion (of the admin sort) if a T is known to be there. I don`t know whether or not I actually hit Orthos, but I think situations like this give reason for action to be taken place on this door... or at least rules need to be given for this door.

              That all said, I have no problem with Orthos saying don`t do it... I respect him a lot... but I would love to hear other opinions on this matter from both admins and regs.

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              • #22
                Re: A map flaw or not?

                Originally posted by Sgt. Pepper View Post
                Although you are right about positioning and defusing, it`s not quite possible on Penstock. Even if you were in the ditch and looking up to defuse through the ground, a sniper would still be able to hit your arm/gun and potentially kill you.

                On another note, I recently was playing this map with Orthos, Laredo, and another player. Orthos was a T and was shooting underneath the garage door and was shooting out boxes/trying to hit either Laredo or myself whenever we were in that position. On one round he was doing this and I decided to fire back because I knew where he was. Orthos then responded in chat and said "blind firing will get you kick/banned. you guys should know better."

                In my opinion this was not blind fire because 1. I knew where he was and 2. if T`s are allowed to take advantage of this doors flaw (yes, flaw) then CT`s should be allowed to fire back without repercussion (of the admin sort) if a T is known to be there. I don`t know whether or not I actually hit Orthos, but I think situations like this give reason for action to be taken place on this door... or at least rules need to be given for this door.

                That all said, I have no problem with Orthos saying don`t do it... I respect him a lot... but I would love to hear other opinions on this matter from both admins and regs.

                I agree with you. "late response" lol
                My opinion is that if gun fire is coming from any direction and its a known enemy, you have to be a fool not to shoot in that direction. This door was left open on purpose. Look at any other door in cs, and i closes perfectly. I watch this door allot from all over the map and I know where exactly they will be firing from at most times. SO in order to "prevent" my team from getting hit, a few shots on that garage door seems like a good idea to make them think twice before sticking there face there again. Hopefully, you can get a shot through that door a nick em a bit. I think its fine, and would argue that as long as someone has been spotted of course.

                What about the red room corner? There seems to be some debate over whether or not you can turn that corner and snipe off the T in mid shooting under that door. I have been killed there so many times in mid as a T by TG members and have come to accept it as a place acceptable as long as my team knows what I am doing and there is a enemy spotted. SO of course by nature "and this doesn't make it right" I have now used this tactic to kill a enemy threat. Someone complained last night that I was pushing up to far "as I first said to when I first got killed that way" but I have come to accept this a tactical spot if applied correctly and I agree with it.
                My whole interpretation of playing Tactical doesn't necessarily have any boundaries, it is making sure the objective is achieved! And if that means someone has to push up a bit or go somewhere on the map that seems "to far" in order to prevent the other player "thats been spotted and last one left" from gaining an advantage or escape, I think that you have to go there and choke him out! Communication with team is what playing Tactical is to me. Just food for thought, dont know why I went into this... there is probably a whole thread on red room

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