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Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

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  • Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

    Hello all, the Tactical forum has been seriously lacking in any actual tactical discussion lately. I intend to correct that with a series of in depth discussion regarding defensive positions for several maps. The assumption is a 6 vs 6 game. Why just the defensive side? Because offensive side is far more fluid, and plans should be made on the fly.

    I have outlined positions that I feel give incredible coverage of the map, and allow the players to communicate the enemy position accurately. That said, I understand how camping in the same spot every round is a recipe for disaster. Be clever! The important idea is not where you are rather, what you are watching.

    In addition, success as a defensive team depends on routes being constantly watched, NOT players running back and forth from place to place. Keep your eyes fixed on one spot and count on your team-mates doing the same, than NO enemy will catch your flank.

    To begin, the six positions CTs should take at the begining of the round are marked in red.



    CENTER ROOM
    Position 1 Weap: Clarion, M4, Kreig.
    Position 2 Weap: Clarion, M4, Kreig.

    P1 has one of the most important roles. He will be able to hear footstep approaching bombsite A and inform P6 of incoming Ts. In addition, he can most likely kill 2 or 3 Ts if they choose to assault the middle catwalks. If he goes down, P2 is to immediatly take the post.

    P2 should we watching the upper catwalk entrance to B. He will be dependant on P3 for information regarding a B ground attack, but otherwise his eyes should be fixed on the upper catwalks. If players slip past him P4 will be able to shoot them as they come out the other side.

    BOMBSITE A
    Position 5 Weap: M4, Shotty.
    Position 6 Weap: SCOUT, Kreig.

    P6 is on the upper catwalk and should be in constant communication with P5. When P6 spots CTs at dumpster cover fire should be layed down, than P6 should move forward to the blue dot.

    P5 Should be looking at the entrance to the stairs to catwalks. He is to relay information and let P6 know if any are coming up. If there is a large rush, P5 is to inform P4 to move up to A bombsite.

    If P4, 5, and 6 cannot hold, P1 and 2 can move to assist. P3 should NEVER leave his post unless bomb is down.

    BOMBSITE B
    Position 3 Weap: M4, Kreig, Shotty.
    Position 4 Weap: Clarion, M4, Kreig.

    P3 is crucial to the defense of bombsite B. He is to call out the number of attackers moving into the site and fall back slightly. He can inform P2 of a ground assault and allow P1 and P2 to pick enemies from the top.

    P4 is an important "catch all" player. From his initial position he can see ANY assault of B, should P2 and P3 go down. In the case of an extreme B rush, P4 can fall back to the rightmost blue dot, which is on the ground under the B bombsite. From that position he can pick of Ts planting the bomb without being seen, allowing time for P5 and P6 to get to the site. In addition, P4 can assist bombsite A from the left blue dot if needed.

    ---------

    The players in each position need to adjust themselves slightly each round, however, the important part is keeping focus on a particular entrance. If this thread takes off I will be offering alternative places for each position, with the same coverage remaining, however, I think most CS:S veterans will be able to come up with their own solutions.

    ---------

    Thanks for reading. Any ideas how to improve the coverage? How would you as a terrorist tackle this defense?

    In addition, any comments as to the general layout of the post would be welcome. Was anything unclear, confusing, or poorly worded? I would like to do this with many maps and can only improve clarity! =)

    Peace
    -Aaron
    Last edited by What Is Schwa?; 01-15-2007, 03:16 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

    I completely disagree with your positioning at A, but that's down to personal taste. Excellent article. When can we expect the next one?
    BFCL TF2 league admin

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    • #3
      Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

      Originally posted by Root View Post
      I completely disagree with your positioning at A, but that's down to personal taste. Excellent article. When can we expect the next one?
      Thank you so much =)

      A is tricky, but I figured there is really only one entrance to watch. With one player on the catwalks watching far up (by that dumpster on the other side) and another player on the ground watching the stairs I acheived full coverage. Plus the middle room doesn't need to worry about a flank, and they are in excellent position to reinforce A if needed.

      I realize I should probobly label areas and give positions names, rather than numbers. I don't have any good photo editing program and was stalled by crummy ms Paint (I thought I had photoshop but I guess I deleted it) Know of any good free image editors?

      The edit function only works for so long, so I'll save extra features for my next article, the ever popular Penstock =)

      -Aaron

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      • #4
        Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

        I'm a huge fan of aaa, and I had a hard time figuring out the image you posted initially. I think labels would help tremendously.

        With regard to site A, I would suggest that the best defense is an actual defense. Of the site. I rarely have more than 1 CT with me at the site, even when 3 or 4 of us are tasked to it. Sometimes, the smartest thing to do isn't go forward to a choke point, but to physically shut down the plant spot.

        Originally posted by Schwa
        Plus the middle room doesn't need to worry about a flank,
        Unless the T's take mid cats to B. :)

        I'm eagerly awaiting your Penstock feature. I'd like to request you cover kismayo, ignorance and nuke sooner rather than later too.
        BFCL TF2 league admin

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

          Each of the Position# is a link to the position they should be defending.

          For example:
          Position 5


          He will be watching the catwalk access from the A site.

          Position 1 will be watching the Middle Catwalks.

          I didn't want to put a ton of pictures in the initial post to save on load time.

          -Aaron

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          • #6
            Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

            Originally posted by What Is Schwa? View Post
            Each of the Position# is a link to the position they should be defending.

            He will be watching the catwalk access from the A site.

            Position 1 will be watching the Middle Catwalks.

            I didn't want to put a ton of pictures in the initial post to save on load time.
            Low load times are always a good idea.
            BFCL TF2 league admin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

              Position 5 could also be in the cats, you can get a birds eye view of the same spot. The spot I like to use is JUST outside of the main building on the cats, ct side. you can see the window from there, or see the A ground entrence. The ground one is good, but this spot is a very good change up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                Gref> Exactly the idea, obviously as a defender it is important to adjust your position while maintaining the same coverage.

                Perhaps for future posts I should define points of coverage, rather than positions to defend them from.

                -Aaron

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                • #9
                  Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                  Schwaa... very nice post indeed.. I would be more then happy to help out/converse, get ss, play test, w/e about penstock(as it might be my favorite map we have) and those mentioned be root as well.. just hit me up :)
                  Dizlor


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                  • #10
                    Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                    hmm p4 really should have the scout so he can watch mid better in my opinion, and since you said p6 was for covering fire wouldnt a scout be a hinderance over a gun with more ammo such as the machine gun or the aug, i like your 1 and 2 postions though. Another thing i was wondering is where did you get your map and why hasnt it been implemented in the radar in game.



                    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
                    Winston Churchill

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                      Originally posted by Root View Post
                      With regard to site A, I would suggest that the best defense is an actual defense. Of the site. I rarely have more than 1 CT with me at the site, even when 3 or 4 of us are tasked to it. Sometimes, the smartest thing to do isn't go forward to a choke point, but to physically shut down the plant spot.
                      I think this tactic is effective, but not foolproof. Especially on aaa.

                      The two main reasons I think that putting your defense on the A bombsite itself is a tragic mistake are...

                      1) No opportunity for recon. By the time the enemy arrives you have little to no time to call for any kind of backup. Since by the time they get there they are on your doorstep.

                      2) You're forcing everyone into a confined space with little cover. If the T's lead with flashbangs and frags, well...you're as good as gone.

                      I find this would be more effective at the B bombsite where the CT's have the high ground to work with. Even if they come cats, the defenders there may be able to hold them back at the doorway long enough for backup to arrive.
                      | | |

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                      • #12
                        Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                        Atomic Dog> You summarized my thoughts in regard to A defense.

                        Playing it slightly forward gives the CTs great cover, higher ground, and one area of focus. Falling back to the bombsite room gives little cover and multiple entrances, plus gives the T's room to maneuver up the catwalks to middle room.

                        If position 6 is on the catwalks looking at dumpster and position 5 is somewhere on the ground looking towards the gate leading up to the catwalks than the ONLY entrance to A has two sets of eyes looking at it. If needed, Position 4 can very quickly assist, and if all three defenders go down positions 1 and 2 will be very quick to arrive.

                        If positions 5 and 6 were to move into the bombsite, positions 1 and 2 could easily be flanked, and position 4 would only get a backup request when there are terrorists actually IN the bombsite.

                        LAMB> I think you might have the overview mixed up. The terrorist side isn't shown, and position 4 is actually quite far back, not really looking "middle" at all. Each othe underlined positions has a link to an in game shot of where they should be looking.

                        I gave Position 6 the scout because I felt that shooting at the dumpster way far across the little up and down stair area was the hardest shot for any of the defensive positions. However, a scout isn't really necessary in the defense of de_AAA and automatics are probobly the best choice for all the positions.

                        -Aaron

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                        • #13
                          Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                          yes your right schwa sorry i though he was on the cat above him where you can view through a gap to the stairs entrance to mid plus have cover of the bomb site and be in very quick reach to respond to the far bomb site as well pretty much the same postition but with elavated ground.



                          "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
                          Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                            LAMB> That would also be a good defensive position, and I like how you are thinking.

                            My idea for de_AAA coverage was to limit approaches. I saw only four routes:

                            (Click to see a in-game screen shot of where the player should be looking at ALL times, unless radio comms give specific info)

                            Middle Catwalks. (P1) P2 as instant backup.

                            Upper B. (P2, P3) P4 can assist

                            Lower B. (P3, P4) P1 and P2 can instantly backup.

                            Big opening to A. (P5, P6) P4 can assist, with quick backup from P1 and P2

                            With my coverage, I have two sets of eyes on every approach, and at least one quick backup player. With steady communication, I honestly don't see how the terrorists could penetrate.

                            Obviously, the attackers will get wise to certain hiding spots, but the idea is to cover an entrance. Where you do it from is slightly less important, as long as you have very similar coverage. Position 6 can hide on different spots of the catwalk, or even move up to the catwalks closer to the dumpster area. Position 5 can move around to a few different spots on the ground in A, as long as he can communicate enemy moving up to the catwalks.

                            I'm considering re-doing the overlay, and instead of numbered positions giving areas. Like I said earlier though, I was only using paint, and overlays and stuff are crap. Can anyone recomend a decent free image editor?

                            -Aaron

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Schwa's Guide: de_aaa Defense.

                              Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
                              I think this tactic is effective, but not foolproof. Especially on aaa.

                              The two main reasons I think that putting your defense on the A bombsite itself is a tragic mistake are...

                              1) No opportunity for recon. By the time the enemy arrives you have little to no time to call for any kind of backup. Since by the time they get there they are on your doorstep.

                              2) You're forcing everyone into a confined space with little cover. If the T's lead with flashbangs and frags, well...you're as good as gone.

                              I find this would be more effective at the B bombsite where the CT's have the high ground to work with. Even if they come cats, the defenders there may be able to hold them back at the doorway long enough for backup to arrive.
                              The vast majority of the time, the T's kill the CT's one at a time, due to the CT's implementing something along the lines of what Schwa advocates. There are exactly 2 types of people who take forward positions at any site - team players who want to alert the team to an attack in a manner that gives the team the best possible chance of reacting, and killwhores. If the T's kill the forward player(s) it really doesn't make a difference which type of dead CT was there.

                              Put another way, as far as our server goes, Schwa's defense is broken and I don't see anyone trying to fix it.
                              BFCL TF2 league admin

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