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  • Killhunting or Not?

    Well, after a little argument me and Neski had on the server earlier today on backalley, I told myself to take it to the forums. Therefore I am.

    Basically the story from my view is this, I am sitting in the stairwell(The one that goes to the roof) on the bottom level right next to the hostages. I am waiting there, knowing full well that I gave up the other hostage set. Time ticks away and away, until around 2 minutes I get killed from our Spawn. He also has the other set of hostages following him. I believe this was killhunting because his objective is the hostages safety, and not taking them into another red zone. He told me that he did this because he thought I would be watching the front door, and would be a death trap (Which he took around 2-4 minutes to clear).

    Also, feel free to tell your side of the story Neski.
    Thoughts?



    He who believes he knows the ending of things before they begin is either a very wise person or an idiot. Regardless, he is unhappy for he hast drove a knife into the heart of wonder. -Osten Ard

  • #2
    Re: Killhunting or Not?

    i think the bigger problem is you weren't watching the set of hostes left, so he got them. If the game creates an argument on the server, that doesn't help anything when it comes to the rest of the players wanting some good clean games.


    Take it to Steam friends or PMs.
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

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    • #3
      Re: Killhunting or Not?

      There are 2 sets of hostages. I was near one, but yes not completely watching them, just hearing.

      And the arguement didn't disturb the players on the server, it was hardly an arguement. Thats why I took it to the forums. Also just seeing what you guys thought of the situation.



      He who believes he knows the ending of things before they begin is either a very wise person or an idiot. Regardless, he is unhappy for he hast drove a knife into the heart of wonder. -Osten Ard

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Killhunting or Not?

        I dont think it was killhunting. Many times when i tag a hostie set, i take them through the stairwells. Taking them out front puts me in jeopardy of being shot from numerous angles. The stairwell offers a single straight path, and since that route usually isnt taken, you can catch a terrorist by surprise. Now, neski was out of flash and smoke grenades. He couldnt smoke and/or flash the front door without the risk of being shot. This is just my opinion. I mean, from where Kulmar was, Neski couldve ran by the front door with the hosties without a problem. The only thing is that Neski didnt know where Kulmar was so to do so wouldve been foolish. I dont wanna offend anyone, but i just think that the route Neski took was the safest one available.
        :icon35: Ultima |TG-PCS| :icon35:

        This is where I put my ribbons.
        |
        |
        .\__\
        ...../



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        • #5
          Re: Killhunting or Not?

          I came out of vents and I think Ultima was with me at front alley. I spotted someone with Para at redroom and pulled back. Ultima pushed forward and was killed by kean with m4 at red room. There were 2 Ts left so I figured they were both up there since I had spotted one with a Para. I took my time and jumped to red room ledge. I killed Kean in the window and he still had M4 not Para.

          I figured Kulmar had gone down stairs to hostages. I slowly went down the ladder by front alley and picked up an AK and some HE nades. I was out of flashes from that point on. I tossed an HE to the stairwell by the set I thought Kulmar was at. Then I tossed an HE that was on the ground to the stairwell by the set under the vent exit room. I decided to move into that set.

          I cleared the room then the stairwell. I waited for Kulmar for a bit knowing it was just between him and me. I figured he wouldn't want to give up any hostages. I tagged them, pulled back to stairs, and waited to see if he would get curious. I didn't have a flash and I didn't want to go out front. I decided I take them down too the basement. I checked the vent room and slowly creeped to the stairwell. I saw Kulmars legs and I took him out.

          When I was the last one left with Kean and Kulmar I figured the round was lost already. I did attempt a rescue and I made the decision I thought was best as far as evacuation goes. Yes, it is important to secure the hostages safety. However, it was a one on one situation with a player who is at least as good as me if not better. I figured Kulmar would be determined to not give up on any of the hostages. The round wasn't going to end with all hostages rescued, but I feel that I made a legitimate attempt at rescuing the set I had with me. The hostages would have been in worse shape had I died, and I felt that going into that alley would have meant death for me.

          ::::EDIT:::: When Kulmar says argument I don't think he means we were fighting. It was a brief tactics discussion and he almost immediately logged off to take it to the forums instead of having it in game. I don't think there is any beef. Not on my side at least.

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          • #6
            Re: Killhunting or Not?

            I think its pretty much worked out. Kulmar I have been one and watched many CT come out into alley only to end the round being killed from above or from the backalley hallway. I understand the time he took also but not having the nades he needed I can see why he went the opposite direction through spawn. I wouldn't say its a killhunt. I would say its a desperate act on that particular map.

            I ask this though, what was your continued route if you wouldn't of seen Kulmar Neski ?

            I also think Kulmar was watching his hostages fine. He just needed to beaware of Neski's tactic and now he will :)


            For example its italy and you have plenty time and men and you know theres 1 or 2 T's on second floor. Why would you go up there after tagging hostages on bottom floor? Now thats a killhunt and your putting hostages in danger.



            FUN FUN

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            • #7
              Re: Killhunting or Not?

              I was on at the time this happened. This is my take on it. I've seen many times CT's have one set and run in the front door of the other set many times. Sometimes they get taken out by someone on the boxes, or in the stairwell or in the vent. Now, this CT took the hostages into the Red Zone trying to resuce all 4 at once. Happens all the time on more then just this map, Italy being another example. By going into spawn, Neski minimumized all 4 hosties from being in the firefight. If he had gone out the door, and in the other hostage room, all 4 hosties would have been in the firefight.
              sigpic




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              • #8
                Re: Killhunting or Not?

                Originally posted by sparhawkxx View Post

                I ask this though, what was your continued route if you wouldn't of seen Kulmar Neski ?

                For example its italy and you have plenty time and men and you know theres 1 or 2 T's on second floor. Why would you go up there after tagging hostages on bottom floor? Now thats a killhunt and your putting hostages in danger.
                Yeah, thats what I was trying to get at what he was going to do if I wasn't there, just run by the doorway? Or get all 4...

                But I do see people get rocked at that doorway a lot. Being it from my perspective in game and my current location, it would appear a killhunt to me only because I wasn't watching the other set.



                He who believes he knows the ending of things before they begin is either a very wise person or an idiot. Regardless, he is unhappy for he hast drove a knife into the heart of wonder. -Osten Ard

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Killhunting or Not?

                  eh... tough choice.

                  a) attempt to pull out the 2 hostages in a situation where you might draw fire
                  b) take those 2 hostages into a possible firefight because you think it is an unexpected route and might secure their safty AND that of the other set.

                  I probably would have tried to extract that one set. Might have died, but I don't think I could have pulled out a 2nd set grab and I don't like the idea of leaving hostages there if I can try.

                  But I can see it... I wouldn't call it killhunting, more like a desperate attempt to sneak in an unexpected direction.
                  "Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
                  Good luck getting rid of your disease. If you're infected, though, stay away--I can't afford to be a zombie right now.
                  " Ednos


                  sigpic




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                  • #10
                    Re: Killhunting or Not?

                    Originally posted by Kulmar View Post
                    Yeah, thats what I was trying to get at what he was going to do if I wasn't there, just run by the doorway? Or get all 4...

                    But I do see people get rocked at that doorway a lot. Being it from my perspective in game and my current location, it would appear a killhunt to me only because I wasn't watching the other set.
                    I was going to head up the stairs and run past the door to the other hostage room. Going out into the alley I would have been right next to the other door to that hostage room as well so I don't see how that is better. I picked the way that had the least amount of places for you to sneak out from and kill me.

                    After passing the door to that set I would have run to red hall and jumped out the window into backalley. The hostages would have made there way down the stairs while I hid bellow the window hoping that if you were chasing me I would have gotten away and rescued.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Killhunting or Not?

                      Seems like it is not really kill hunting as trying alternative tactics.

                      We are getting mostly regulars on the server and we each learn what to expect from an opponent because we have either played against them or with them so many times. So trying something "radical" is a good plan by itself. It won't work all the time but something unexpected depending who you are against (Someone good like Kulmar) may just be what you are looking for. In this case it worked because Kulmar expected him to tag that set of hosties and get out.

                      I have seen alternative plans that others would think unreasonable work many times just because everyone is thinking reasonably of what they would do. Truth is...you can not expect anything at any time.... Watch your back and comms..(unless your the last one alive) are KEY. Remember sometimes the opposition will not agree with your best laid plans and decide to do something else...what are ya gonna do then?

                      WHEN WE PLAY TG/PCS! Thats the name of the game...

                      P.S. (Oh and I have heard people working comms even though they knew everyone on their team is dead.....You know who you are...They give the play by play like they are John Madden...LOL!)



                      Play MySpace games? PeepsDepot.com to get all the Peeps you need for any game!

                      Wii# 5935-7920-5346-8754 | PS3:TheeShadyB | XBOX 360:TheeShadyB

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                      • #12
                        Re: Killhunting or Not?

                        Originally posted by Kulmar View Post
                        Well, after a little argument me and Neski had on the server earlier today on backalley, I told myself to take it to the forums. Therefore I am.

                        Basically the story from my view is this, I am sitting in the stairwell(The one that goes to the roof) on the bottom level right next to the hostages. I am waiting there, knowing full well that I gave up the other hostage set. Time ticks away and away, until around 2 minutes I get killed from our Spawn. He also has the other set of hostages following him. I believe this was killhunting because his objective is the hostages safety, and not taking them into another red zone. He told me that he did this because he thought I would be watching the front door, and would be a death trap (Which he took around 2-4 minutes to clear).

                        Also, feel free to tell your side of the story Neski.
                        Thoughts?
                        Knowing Neski it probably was kill hunting (Neski you rascal you :D).

                        Truthfully, he can claim that he was just getting the other set or, better yet, taking an unexpected route when he knew you knew that he had the hosties. That my friend is called a feint which I do believe can be considered quite tactical indeed (even if it is a bit kill huntish). Trully though, you didn't HAVE to be there either.


                        - "Children in the back seat cause accidents, accidents in the back seat cause children."
                        - "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

                        ~ SephVal <--> TG-303rd Master Sergeant (MSG) <--> Distinguished Sniper - Class I


                        ~ COD4 Sniper <--> Owner of the Golden Dragunov

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                        • #13
                          Re: Killhunting or Not?

                          Originally posted by Quest Shady View Post
                          P.S. (Oh and I have heard people working comms even though they knew everyone on their team is dead.....You know who you are...They give the play by play like they are John Madden...LOL!)

                          Oh that is so me :D John Madden for CSS ftw!
                          Perhaps I should be awarded the first ribbon for play by play overview (I would say excellence in said activity but I don't think many would agree... they're just jealous :P).


                          - "Children in the back seat cause accidents, accidents in the back seat cause children."
                          - "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

                          ~ SephVal <--> TG-303rd Master Sergeant (MSG) <--> Distinguished Sniper - Class I


                          ~ COD4 Sniper <--> Owner of the Golden Dragunov

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Killhunting or Not?

                            After reading all the posts I would have to say that Neski is more in the right since i have also done this many times before. Like he said he took the safest route at the time of extraction. Who cares after whether he grabbed the other set or rescued the set he had.

                            I believe another thing to point out is that where kulmar was was probably not the best place either. Listening is not the same as watching and don't always assume something won't happen. From what I read Neski was able to sneak up on kulmar while extracting and easily catch him off gaurd. This is obviously a no no. Be more conscious about your surroundings no matter where you are.

                            Now say Neski knew where kulmar was and he still took that same route then he is obviously killhunting or just stupid since it would not be the most effective route.
                            There are no winners in war.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Killhunting or Not?

                              Once you tag hostages, their rescue and safety becomes your primary concern, choose the best path you think in that way. It paid off but both directions are equally dangerous IMO though as you get yourself choked into that hallway you are also a much easier target to hit and going outside he can hear you and have the drop on you from multiple directions.

                              I probably would have tried walking right out the front and heading to front alley way to rescue but that's just me. I like to do whatever is least expected and that pretty much tops it for that situation. They can't hear you walking and if they aren't looking out the door, you're pretty clean to get out.

                              There are plenty of players who have used reasons like, I can't flash/smoke or tell where an enemy might be to circumvent the objective at hand and I can't really judge that hear but I probably would have said something to you neski had i been on the server. Really the straight up objective is to head straight for the rescue zone but alternate tactics are ok I just wouldn't make a habit of going the other way. Take your time going through the unknown targets and check as much as possible or the purist, just mad dash it.


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