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  • VIP maps

    There has been alot of what I consider kill hunting going on during these maps.

    I was playing as a Counter Terrorist on as_crisis tonight and it just seemed to me that there was a truck load of kill hunting.

    The terrorists would then say "Well the objective is to kill the VIP, is it not?".

    What I want to know is this, Is the Objective to Kill to the VIP or to keep the VIP from reaching the rescue zone?

    I personally view it just like a bomb map. You don't go try and find the bomber randomly. You watch choke points or wherever to "Keep the bomb from being planted". Once you see the bomber, go after him while communicating with your team. On VIP maps someone sees one person and then feels the need to push farther in hopes that the VIP is with them.

    I would like to know which is the proper way so I can enforce it as such in the server.

    Thank you.
    "We can not ensure success, but we can deserve it." - John Adams
    "Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." - Forrest Gump







  • #2
    Re: VIP maps

    I actually kind of laughed when I first opened this up... but now after reading it I can see where your getting it from. It could very well be interpreted your way, but I have always been told to kill the VIP, so...



    He who believes he knows the ending of things before they begin is either a very wise person or an idiot. Regardless, he is unhappy for he hast drove a knife into the heart of wonder. -Osten Ard

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    • #3
      Re: VIP maps

      i agree too... kill the vip as long as the t's have people watching the rescue zone then it should be fine..... as CT's then why not set up a perimeter and Wait for the ensuing rush by the t's.... thin them out and then proceed to the extraction point






      "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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      • #4
        Re: VIP maps

        My point is that rushing out to kill the hostage is impractical and untactical. In as_crisis, if all the terrorists rushed out to kill, the VIP could slip around and escape.

        Let's say 4 of the terrorists go out and get themselves killed, that only leaves 3 at most to defend.

        As for the waiting for the terrorists to come out to you, we tried that and it failed. Either they came at us and destroyed us, God knows I don't know how the heck that happened, or we waited for a couple minutes, moved forward slowly and then 3 guys jumped us and BAM we're all dead.

        I don't know, I still see it as kill hunting and I always will. No going around that.If people are going to justify their killhunting trying to kill the VIP all out by their lonesome, trying to hide and come behind or not, then I probably won't play anymore VIP maps.
        "We can not ensure success, but we can deserve it." - John Adams
        "Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." - Forrest Gump






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        • #5
          Re: VIP maps

          the More i thought about this one the more i wanted to post again.....

          if the whole team is coming after the VIP then i think that there is a critical flaw in that plan.... who on the T side then is guarding the escape???? why not split your T team up into two fire groups or even designate a "hunting party" of two T's to go and do re-con for you?? while the remain T's Gard the exit point...

          with the very few VIP maps that we play, there is substantial choke points along the way to spread the rest of the team out.

          i personally see this strategy as to go "kill the VIP" as a cheesy way out to turn our beloved TG server into a pub server. we as TG members should come up with better plans that just to go kill anything that moves. lets put our head together and have a nice plan that utilizes ambushes and choke points rather than kill hunting
          Last edited by Jack Bauer; 12-11-2008, 02:10 AM. Reason: spelling






          "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: VIP maps

            For an example of what I view as the right way to play as_crisis, I was a terrorist on this map a couple days ago. On my team was Spar and Turbo that I can remember, so they can say whether or not they enjoyed this as well. If any of us spawned in that middle building, then we would have people there, usually have a couple fall back and just leave a few people.

            Usually myself and Dig Dug would sit in the top floor of the middle building while everyone else stayed closer to the back of the map. One round I caught three people who did not clear the building we were in and killed them from above. Only once did we have anybody further out, and that was because the cts were getting comfortable with us not pushing them too hard.

            But yeah, we were communicating well and actually planning. Often while playing VIP maps I see the terrorists just run forward without so much as a word, much less a plan.
            "We can not ensure success, but we can deserve it." - John Adams
            "Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." - Forrest Gump






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            • #7
              Re: VIP maps

              I've never liked VIP maps for this reason. It can be thought of as permitted kill hunting, in the end that is the objective. If you don't engage the VIP atleast at the half way point, he can just sprint past the defenders at the extraction point. So, it's never made sense to me to sit right on the extraction point and wait for him and his team to arrive. A couple smokes and a final rush with the CT's acting as meat shields would almost garentee a CT win every time.

              Just my two on it...
              sigpic




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              • #8
                Re: VIP maps

                Well I'm not saying sit directly on the extraction point, but don't push out too far either. The VIP has to get to a SPECIFIC point to win the round, so why not cover the main entry ways to that point instead of going out further?

                On as_crisis, four or five well placed people will cover all entry points to the escape. If you put the last two or three guys into the tunnels, then all is well.
                "We can not ensure success, but we can deserve it." - John Adams
                "Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." - Forrest Gump






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                • #9
                  Re: VIP maps

                  If As_Crisis was a real occurrence how would it be handled? I doubt the terrorists would want to lose ground chasing a VIP when the object is to prevent him from escaping. It's not a game of tag, it should be played with a king of the hill mentality. If your objective is to stop a VIP from entering a train and escaping then why would you ever disregard the train?

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                  • #10
                    Re: VIP maps

                    Sitting on the train is EPIC failure, all it takes is good orginized CT's working together to get the VIP on the square. It's not like he has to stand there for a minute while the train starts moving to escape. Being in the tunnels is no good either, if the CT's are rolling in a pack, they can roll over the 2 T's gaurding one of 4 possible entrances into that room. Your best bet, IMO, is to get to the CT side entrance of the tunnels. This way all T's can support one another outside. Deny them access to the tunnels, as this appears to be the best place to setup as T's.
                    sigpic




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                    • #11
                      Re: VIP maps

                      To me it all boils down to its just a game and the point of a game is to have fun most vip maps only have one extraction point so if all Ts just hunker down and wait all day for CTs to come every round thats not much fun for anyone. Like Jack said have 2 teams a team to watch the rescue zone and a team to find the vip. Now if everyone leaves to hunt the vip then thats a communication problem thier should allways be a team leader to give out positions.
                      |TG| Plude220

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                      • #12
                        Re: VIP maps

                        I think you guys misinterpret what I am saying. I am not talking about hunkering down on top of the escape. As I said before, if you were to treat it like a bomb map, there are a couple people who practically sit on the site and the others are covering the other various ways into the sites.

                        I am talking more about the player mentality during a vip map. The mere fact that the objective is "To kill the vip" means that there are going to be people who get over zealous and rush forward to kill. Whether they do kill the vip or not is beside the point. Almost everytime I play a VIP map there always ends up being two, three tops, terrorists left guarding the escape point at the end of the round. That should not happen, period. You should be working as a team.
                        "We can not ensure success, but we can deserve it." - John Adams
                        "Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." - Forrest Gump






                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: VIP maps

                          This discussion needs to be expanded past as_crisis.
                          as_oilrig is and always has been the most played (as) map in cs and css by far.
                          And if we think about how ppl rush the vents into the ct spawn to kill the VIP from behind or the complete domination of the pool room on as_oilrig can be well considered to far, but by definition, if you kill that VIP just like if you defuse the bomb, not only do you win, but the entire other team is destroyed.

                          This topic came up because i was "pushing" to far and came up behind clef and another player (VIP not present, but i was hopeful), along w/ suid, FM, and others (they just did not follow my path that round). I was the only one slayed and the others continued to push far, by not slayable far enough i guess.

                          The last time i played this map as a CT my spawn was overrun more than once. There were PCS players present and doing it with the Ts, and dying w/ the CTs. So when i go to do the same and overrun and take advantage of a spawn location in the building far from the rescue point and get slayed.

                          I ask that this issue be completely cleared by the head of CSS so all admins and players will act the same on this and every VIP map.
                          Because we all need to play in harmony and we cannot do that if there are differing opinions that clash so very harshly.

                          AG
                          Last edited by akfree; 12-12-2008, 03:00 AM.
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                          • #14
                            Re: VIP maps

                            Yeah AG, that was my reasoning behind posting this in the first place. I need something solid in which to base further enforcements on.

                            as_crisis is being played alot more than oilrig recently, at least when I am on. Oilrig is a map practically created for killhunting. The terrorists often spawn down below, so many people just rush to kill or be killed. I personally stay outside if I spawn in a place far away enough from ct spawn, but not everyone plays that way. I don't hear much communication on that map on the terrorist side either to be honest, not until there are three Ts left.
                            "We can not ensure success, but we can deserve it." - John Adams
                            "Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." - Forrest Gump






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                            • #15
                              Re: VIP maps

                              I agree Clef. Even if i spawn down below on as_oilrig i return to the top side quickly because i prefer to stay alive and make sure the objective is completed by securing the rescue point. I know i was not doing that on as_crisis that day, but that is because i have played that map and tried to hold the train and know it fails unless Ts outnumber the remaining CTs and the CTs lack great communication to flash and push through the room or know the hiding spots that Ts are typically in to move in slow. It only takes one good person w/ the VIP on that map to win, not so much on as_oilrig.

                              Thanks for bringing this topic up to the community, I am sure everyone will find relief in knowing the best way to play VIP maps, and possibly having it added motd for further clarification beyond this forum.

                              :)
                              AG
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