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  • Potshot
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    Originally posted by sloth View Post
    My statement was more conceptual than practical. Ts can in theory win through killing or denial of escape (yes this has issues). On a bomb map CTs can win by denying access to the bomb sites too.

    Yes, like that point about shorter map times on VIP too.

    To go really out on a limb it would be fun to have a mode or map where the T with the bomb blows up as soon as he is at the site. Would change up CT strategy a lot. Dunno if it's doable at all in the CSS framework though.
    The problem is that on many maps all they really have to do is bumrush it. The difficulty in bomb maps is not in getting to the bombsite, but getting there with enough teammates left to defend it all the while weakening the CTs as much as possible.

    As for the VIP vs. Bomb maps issue, there's a huge difference between the game modes. First of all, in VIP maps, all it takes is the VIP reaching the extraction zone, and it's game over. In bomb maps, you still have a minute to get there and defuse. Second, there's only one VIP you need to worry about, while there's potentially 7 different bombers during one round. Third, there's two bombsites, so you need spread out more anyway.

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  • Vulcan
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    Part of the reason we are about tactics is you have the freedom to change your tactics and that is why you are not simply limited to sitting on a bombsite, escape zone or hostages.
    Last edited by Vulcan; 03-15-2009, 11:13 AM.

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  • sloth
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    My statement was more conceptual than practical. Ts can in theory win through killing or denial of escape (yes this has issues). On a bomb map CTs can win by denying access to the bomb sites too.

    Yes, like that point about shorter map times on VIP too.

    To go really out on a limb it would be fun to have a mode or map where the T with the bomb blows up as soon as he is at the site. Would change up CT strategy a lot. Dunno if it's doable at all in the CSS framework though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vulcan
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    sloth the only way the T's can win is to kill the VIP or let the timer run out. So that's their objective. Letting time run out is not exactly the best idea since T's can't control where the CT's go and do.

    Though this does bring up a good idea to shorten the time on vip maps.. yes yes.

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  • sloth
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    I don't think the goal of a VIP map is to kill the VIP. I think that's looking at it backwards. Ts are defense here. The goal of a VIP map is for the CTs to escort the VIP from a "bad place" to safety. The only goal the T's have is to stop this from happening. Picking off the VIP or keeping him back until time runs out (the rescue vessel gets bored and goes away then?) are both wins for T.

    Ts need to communicate before they go out looking for the VIP but on oil rig there are a few good places where Ts can push forward and setup good ambushes but still be able to fall back quickly if the VIP went a different route. You might not want to do it every round because they would expect you but it forces the CTs to take their time.

    Also, on a bomb map when you are guarding a site if the bomb gets planted you don't immediately lose. If the bomber sees an opening and sprints through you can recover. In a VIP map you can't so I see it as a good thing to try to expand your perimeter further out to try to kill the VIP.

    Edit: Wow. Just realized this was a really old thread. Sorry to zombie.
    Last edited by sloth; 03-14-2009, 10:50 AM.

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  • sparhawkxx
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    We also have to remeber this is not a bomb map. Please stop comparing it to a bomb map. If it is get rid of it. Yes the issue is if your pushed up with no comms you are killhunting.

    And comms just doesnt mean "Im going here". Get the ok from your team meaning someone in charge. Here is the strength and weakness of this game. To kill the VIP kills all the CT. To pick off the T's and distract to save the VIP kills the T's. So having some T feelers out is ok but need to be well commed.

    Ex to see you run all the way around any Admin will slay you. Best thing to do is hold your ground. People don't realize the damage you can do on defense. Just because its VIP no we can't run the map without a leader. Anybody can call where they are going but is that a team effort. Did someone say lets try to hold safezone right after you just lost the prevous round? This is what the problem is.

    When people make a new suggestion either try it or you better start putting everyone in position because your killhunting. Establish a leader. Give that leader good feedback. To help them with decisions. If your in a flanking position then you don't belong outside if you can't just pull back.

    Also CT comb the area. Don't just rush. And beaware of your flank. You can't have the VIP last in line. Big mistake. He's the President and should have men behind and infront protecting him taking bullets. I see the VIP out in the open trying to get headshots. Whats this lol. I know The T's are brought up but if CT can't also play the game then there is no arguement. You know it feels good to see your plan work when followed.

    By the way there is an arguement just need to play the game like we do the rest as a team.

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  • exalted512
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    We had a similar setup to what Spar was mentioning a couple weeks ago. Full server, myself and another T headed out to provide some intel and possibly come up behind a poorly guarded VIP.

    We had 3 people on site 2 of these were on the right side looking at the entrance by vents, the other behind the train.

    The other 2 were slightly pushed up, about a 15 second run back to T spawn.

    My partner and I were moving up right side slowly, he got shot in the alleyway behind the house where the truck is...I wasnt about to try and go back through the way he died, so I was hauling butt to try and get up right side, through their spawn, then try and come up behind them. My team knew where I was and what I was doing. I got slayed for it.

    This plan had been working great previously, although we never moved all the way up to t-spawn, but like I said, it wasn't because I was kill hunting...it was because I didn't want to be killed. Going back the way I came probably would've got me killed...I'm almost sure of it because after I got slayed...there was STILL ct's in that alley. Before that round, my partner and I had killed the VIP before the CTs had even reached the entrance to the rescue zone more than half the times.
    -Cody

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  • Potshot
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    Originally posted by Snake_Doc View Post
    well then in my humble opinion..... why does not someone stand up on the t side and take control of what is going on and make a plan.... seems to me that only a handful of plans are made when on the T side.

    like the above were stated... think of the VIP as a bomb carryer... you would not go and rush someone when they are caring the bomb would you?? then why do it on a VIP map??

    it makes for really good tactics if you hunker down your defensive team and and send out hunting parties for Intel and possible sightings. no more no less. then you are not sacrificing the whole defense on a half assed attempt to go run and gunning like in a pub.
    Well, yes, it's one strategy. But so is hunting. If you decide as a team that you will spread out and systematically search for them, or try to pin in between two groups, that's not killhunting, it's a strategy. Maybe not a good one, but there's no rule against being a bad strategist. I see nothing wrong pushing out if your team agrees to it and you're communicating. The keyword is teamwork, the way I see it, on VIP maps, as long as you're communicating and follow a plan(or, if you don't have a set plan, at least working together).

    on some occasions the VIP should never escape plain and simple... the few VIP maps that we do play if the T's would just hunker down and cut off their escape at the choke points then there is no way of an escape.

    why would one on defense go out and try to be killed when he cant cover all of his angles?? it is easier for one to sit and have the prey come to you is it not???
    The reason is that they know you are there. Sometimes it works. But sometimes the opposition is just too skilled. They'll break through with superior force. But if you get an angle on them from where they are not ready, or if you can keep them guessing where you might be hiding, it's going to take the edge off of their frontal assault.

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  • Jack Bauer
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    well then in my humble opinion..... why does not someone stand up on the t side and take control of what is going on and make a plan.... seems to me that only a handful of plans are made when on the T side.

    like the above were stated... think of the VIP as a bomb carryer... you would not go and rush someone when they are caring the bomb would you?? then why do it on a VIP map??

    it makes for really good tactics if you hunker down your defensive team and and send out hunting parties for Intel and possible sightings. no more no less. then you are not sacrificing the whole defense on a half assed attempt to go run and gunning like in a pub.

    on some occasions the VIP should never escape plain and simple... the few VIP maps that we do play if the T's would just hunker down and cut off their escape at the choke points then there is no way of an escape.

    why would one on defense go out and try to be killed when he cant cover all of his angles?? it is easier for one to sit and have the prey come to you is it not???

    Leave a comment:


  • RKeister
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    The issue is just every time we play there's one or two guys on T that rush through CT spawn. They are trying to be heroes and just costing their team in the end by getting picked off & lacking the communication that this server expects. I feel that the T's should be positioned throughout the map where they can observe and communicate to their team their sightings, and not just running around like its recess. The T's need to keep in mind that if the VIP did slip by and get near the rescue site, how far are they pushed, and can they get back to the site in time to prevent the rescue. If not, they probably pushed farther than they should've. Although the objective is to prevent the VIP from rescuing (usually by killing) the T's are the defensive team on this map and need to play as if they are.

    Signed
    -F1o- Turbo |TG|
    Last edited by RKeister; 12-14-2008, 01:16 AM. Reason: signature.

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  • Sara
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    Haven't read nothing other than first few posts, so I'm gonna say this.

    There's a thick line between rushing and a tactical push, I've played a few of these maps so I'd say if there are people watching the rescue zone, it'd be okay with having two guys watch further entrance points.

    Leave a comment:


  • sparhawkxx
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    I understand but its like going through the guantlet. But the enemy must be able to still defend the goalpoint. So using a few players to weaken the VIP's team is a very strong tactic for this mod. Yeah if it doesnt work I think the tactic should be changed at times to throw off the CT's.

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  • Clefspeare
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    Yeah, I don't want to always be the one forming the plan either.

    In real life, I would not go very far away from where the supposed extraction point would be, I would be nearby and ready to pounce.

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  • sparhawkxx
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    With us Clef when we played We was calling orders and I had to call a few people back. My basic strat was to put 3 people forward. This was done in the begining rounds and I should of assigned those 3 to specific places. 2 players together and another watching a choke point. The problem I seen is after Turbo asked for all of us to start falling back we had a few pushed up and had to be called back.

    Now having the 3 pushed forward if the CT did rush by they ran into 4 at safezone and got flanked by the 3 for not clearing their route.

    If they got picked off and we did have them out manned on one of these we flanked far around them and I think we got a man up the middle because they couldnt hold spawn area. Its too big and just sitting there they died. Could the planning of been a little more clear yes. Killhunting I don't think so. We did risk and lose players in the begining but that was the plan. Well not to lose them but have them forward.

    I don't think VIP should be a bomb map. CT's job is to get them to the safezone through the Terrorist and not to meet them on their turf. This isn't gang wars.

    I do agree maybe the planning could of been clearer. Anyone just moving around on the radar not comming or not told to be there is killhunting. And I did call them back. That is a strat to kill the VIP. If everyone runs out then yes their still is a site to protect. Just watching a site then we shouldn't have VIP maps.

    Also please take control and command. Everytime I or any other leader joins the server someone should be planning. We like to follow plans from other people too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vulcan
    replied
    Re: VIP maps

    if it smells, looks and feels like killhunting then it probably is. I would recommend that VIP maps be played only with full admins on the server because these types of issues are very hard to judge. It's all about intent and the particular strategy that round. You can't put a blanket statement over it.

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