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  • cs_beirut defensive dispute

    [media]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9617/csbeirut.jpg[/media]

    This is a dispute between myself and Xen today on cs_beirut. Hopefully those who enter into this discussion will know the spot and the map to be able to help. The background to this is terrorists have 3 players and counter terrorists have 2 (myself and fran who have been scouting the map).

    Xen was on the red dot as a terrorist shooting to the far end of the left side and the way out of CT spawn. I questioned his tactics and judgement on the position when it comes to the objective of securing the hostages.

    Now I have seen others hold the green dot I have placed and have roamed between looking down left side either side of the arch, from this position you can also see the exit of the hostage first set that I have labeled. I have no problem with this because you are holding a flank and choke while also being able to react to hostages.

    However I thought the red dot had crossed to being too far because firstly you are no longer in line of sight to the exit from hostage set and so have a run ahead of you to help there. You also have put yourself in a position that is hard to fall back from outside the walls and so if you go down no intel can be gathered from your death for your team since the CT's haven't choosen their approach at that point.

    Well what do others think? I know I am a bit of a conservative player when it comes to defence but if your aim is just to hold the left flank then way not from the green dot or the balcony outside first set (both far better to help the rest of the team out) whats to say if this is fine then why not the far end of the left side and stop the CT's coming out of their spawn by sitting in a position to watch both exits?



    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    Winston Churchill

  • #2
    Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

    We had T on the left, and one upper hostage courtyard area. I had moved to my position to eliminate an enemy crossfire from front archway and the corner wall area. We had not lost any T's at that time when I engaged Fran which was looking to the corner wall area, and not to my position. I did not push past the red dot on the map. I felt I was justified in being there as there are no boundries, we T's were communicating intel and as I said before, guarding the inside of that right archway is suicide, IMO. If they get through that archway they can hop right up the wall across from that archway and get into the upper set. I saw a better place to guard that chokepoint and did so.

    On a sidenote, if you notice on the map, whoever gaurds from the upper right corner of the above pic, they are further away from the Hostages then my position. So, is that too far off objective as well?
    sigpic




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    • #3
      Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

      That it is not in the interest of objective play IMO. It degrades the map into a single line of fire and really has no point other than to kill the ct's quicker.


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      • #4
        Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

        So then, if I were where the green dot was, that would have been on objective? If so, how is it any different then being on the other side of the alleyway? Either way, I was denying them access to the archway, so they couldn't keep doing what they did the round before. Fran hopped right up that wall taking out the T that was in the courtyard. I've seen people hide behind the well there and no one said anything, and it's even to where I was.
        sigpic




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        • #5
          Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

          the blue roof is very easy to defend from inside with the right teamwork. If you can't do it then fall back and use your defense not push out.


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          • #6
            Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

            I'm not talking about the blue roof wall, I'm talking about the wall right next to the upper hostage area. As I could not see the approch to blue roof wall, I was concentrating on keeping them from being about to duck into the archway and hop up the inside wall.
            sigpic




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            • #7
              Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

              I would say hitting the blueroof to take down a sniper is find if you have info that a sniper is there or if he is taking down your team from blue roof then fine, but once eliminated he should fall back. It is alot like the ladder spot on cs_parkhouse imho.



              "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
              Winston Churchill

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

                Personally I would never cross that tunnel as you can see it on top of the rooftops and from pretty much any angel near the house with the hosties, and yes they do appear to be out of site from the red dot for a terrorist. That map has pretty good hold points for Terrorists no reason to be out there unless they were to tag the hosties. Also to point out there were only 5 of you and roaming out in the situation just puts you and your teammates at risk.
                Last edited by suid; 06-04-2009, 07:33 PM. Reason: adding more stuff.


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                • #9
                  Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

                  I would personally see no reason for ANY Terrorist to push past any of the tunnels or outside the main walls. Their goal in this map is to prevent the CT's from rescuing hostages. and to assist teammates and keep a close enough stay to the hostages to be able to know that they are tagged there is no reason to go outside the perimeter walls. Being terrorist on this map should be very passive because of the design of it almost being fortress-like. If you are pushing outside the tunnels you are not doing it for any reason other than to find a kill. The blue roof area, and the two tunnels create solid choke points, and can be guarded effectively using the right defense. There should be no reason the T's are pushing passed for a view looking in since you cant really see the hosties from out there, nor be able to fall back to aid a team member fast enough if they call for it.

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                  • #10
                    Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

                    I agree. I also would go further to say I hate this map in general and wish it would die a slow death.


                    "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock

                    "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God! =)' or 'Good God, morning! =(" - Blackalicious

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                    • #11
                      Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

                      A long time ago, we were playing this map. The T's had pretty much ALL pushed out into that outer area, so the CTs were having a hard time to just get into there. A lot of them were complaining and the admin then (forget who) - told us to work up a plan. So myself and someone else, forget who, worked up a smoke/flash plan that got us into that outer area. The ts then fell back to the inner room we now mainly restrict to the Ts.

                      While we have no boundaries, there are some practical limits.

                      What those practical limits are change as we play a map. As I said before, we used to be fine with terrorists being in that outer area. Now it's more frowned on. I even remember one time it was frowned on for terrorists to be up behind the blue roof.

                      So while I think Xen's position is a decent one, it is currently not viewed as OK.



                      One other point as far as where you position yourself. One thing to realize is that while we know IN THE GAME, the enemy can only come from certain places, in real life the CTs could come from ANYWHERE. They could repel down the wall in the back, etc. This gives a bit more credible reason, from a story/realistic view, for Ts to keep a bit closer to the hostages and CTs to keep closer to bomb sites. Imagine if on this map, all the terrorists moved out to the outer area. Then a CT rapelled in, grabbed the hostages and then had them climb up the rope and out to freedom.
                      "Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
                      Good luck getting rid of your disease. If you're infected, though, stay away--I can't afford to be a zombie right now.
                      " Ednos


                      sigpic




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                      • #12
                        Re: cs_beirut defensive dispute

                        Personally I think in this situation it's justifiable. He said there were good comms and intel and thats the key in this game. I don't think that that position in this case was pushing too far. Pople know that you can cover that roof from another spot but still, why should you be restriocted to those spots which most CTs know about and will be checking. The element of surprise is always cool, but like Disciple said once the menace is taken care of fall back unless you know that his buddy is right theere with him.
                        In the beginning of the round though I wouldn't push past green dot; there is no need to. Personally that is one of my favorite spots because its a challenging position to take and if you have the right guy on there it can save the Ts heaps of ttrouble.
                        "Be careful guys, he's got a gun"
                        - Sparhawxx

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