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  • Tanks

    I'd like to open a civil, respectful discusion on the tanks in Heroes of Stalingrad.

    Let me preface this by saying I played a lot of Ostfront and considered myself a decent tanker. In that version, you could angle certain tanks (IS-2 and Panther) so that AP rounds could not penetrate your armor. The only way to be destroyed was absorbing many HE rounds, get flanked, or have enemy artillery called on your position. It was common practice to tank solo and move around between the various positions as needed (hull gunner, driver, commander). There was absolutely nothing more infuriating than being in a perfect hull down position guarding a CP and have someone randomly hop in your tank and drive off to ram enemy tanks with you helplessly along for the ride. This happened more often than you can imagine.

    So I was initially ecstatic when I learned you could "lock" tanks in HoS and have them crewed by AI. No more tankjackings and unwanted joyrides!

    My priorities, in this order:

    1) Subdue enemy armor
    2) Kill enemy infantry with HE rounds and coax MG on turret
    3) Move up behind friendly infantry to support their advance

    Because of the delayed kill messages, it took me a while to figure out the hull AI gunner was racking up an inordinate amout of kills. Instant headshot if you poked your helmet up anywhere within the MGs range.

    I didn't really feel that this is the way I cared to play the game; with an aimbot as my crewmate.

    What really pushed me over the edge was something I learned the other week and I believe I witnessed on the receiving end playing Pavlov's House tonight.

    In Ostfront tanks could only resupply ammo at the various stockpiles throughout the map. Recently I learned that the tanks are repaired, crews are replenished, and ammo resupplied every two minutes sitting on one of those dumps in HoS.

    So, what happened was I was playing Pavlovs House as Axis and once the round started I used the ammo dump at 9th of January Square as defilade (actually, I didn't even know it was an ammo dump). I was able to kill the T-34s every time they tried to engage me, the AI hull gunner cut off the route the Allied infantry could take to cross over to Pavlov's House, and I could fire HE rounds into the last two caps to support the assault taking place there. I kept wondering why the enemy T-34s weren't damaging my tank, but just figured those players just happened to be inexperienced (which perhaps they were). Regardless, I was credited with over 40 kills in just over five minutes and the round was over. What I later learned is that those ammo dumps are on a two minute timer, meaning if you can survive for two minutes sitting on one you are automatically back to 100% everything. Crew. Ammo. Health. I know personally where I was located the only thing that would've taken me out was enemy artillery. The T-34s couldn't touch me and enemy infantry couldn't get close enough to destroy my Panzer IV.

    I possibly was on the receiving end of such a thrashing tonight because the Allies won two rounds in just about five minutes each and the Axis really weren't able to make it out of spawn. I don't know for certain if the T-34s were parked on the ammo dump at 9th January, but I do know that every time we moved out of spawn we were instantly mowed down by MG fire, artillery, and HE rounds from the enemy tank.

    It makes me sad because I feel armor is such an integral part of Red Orchestra. However, the combination of an aimbot hullgunner with the "invincibility" of sitting on an ammo dump makes me think TWI realized there were issues with armor in Ostfront, but went the wrong direction in trying to fix the problem.

    Therefore, I respectfully put forward the request to remove tanks from the TG server unless we can somehow disable the AI hullgunner and possibly increase the timer for tanks to be back to 100% effectiveness at the ammo depots.

    Again, I'd like to hear other thoughts on the pros and cons of tanks in Heroes of Stalingrad. The floor is open! :)

  • #2
    Re: Tanks

    Thanks for starting this conversation, Coridon. I've been meaning to do the same thing but, have been occupied with other, more immediate concerns.

    You've managed to encapsulate my opinion on the matter, without all of the rage I would have expressed and I thank you for that.

    I've started a thread in the admin forums so that we can start discussing the options available to us. But, we (the administration staff) are very interested to hear what the community thinks and would appreciate it if everyone would weigh in on this subject.



    • #3
      Re: Tanks

      I LOVE tanking, but on these maps, I agree they are too beastly. I've noticed some servers have them removed. I'm not sure if this is an easy server-side setting or what?

      I do enjoy playing Gumrack at times for some tank action, but usually I fall back to RO: Darkest Hour to get my fix. Once troop transports, new tanks and larger maps are introduced, I think RO2 will really shine.


      • #4
        Re: Tanks

        Tanking is frustrating right now, I've not even really bothered with tanks, since the beta. They really need to decrease the AI's accuracy, show whose in your tank, and what position, and display this via the tactical view (T).


        • #5
          Re: Tanks

          I don't really see a problem with the tank's accuracy. The point of a hull mounted/reverse facing turret mounted MG is to create a cone in front of the gun which is a 'no go' zone for infantry. In real life unless you were caught there you just wouldn't approach the vehicle in that direction period because of the high probability of being killed. The whole point is to flank the vehicle with its terrible visibility or to plink at it from range with the AT rifle.

          On that note there should be a panzerfaust or some similar antitank launcher that does a better job than the recoilless rifle. That would go a long way to improving the balance.

          The AT grenades are pretty potent though if you can get an engineer close enough.

          If the MG were limited in its effectiveness running up to a tank from the front with pure blind luck and throwing an AT grenade would basically invalidate the effectiveness of armour on a lot of the smaller maps.


          • #6
            Re: Tanks

            Originally posted by Makarov View Post
            I LOVE tanking, but on these maps, I agree they are too beastly. I've noticed some servers have them removed. I'm not sure if this is an easy server-side setting or what?

            I do enjoy playing Gumrack at times for some tank action, but usually I fall back to RO: Darkest Hour to get my fix. Once troop transports, new tanks and larger maps are introduced, I think RO2 will really shine.
            Agreed. Can't wait to see some sprawling maps!

            Personally, I don't think it will take much to "tweak" the tanks so they don't have the ability to dominate. Two things:

            1) Make the AI crew inert. You can either switch positions (which you do now with 1,2,3,4), or get a human crew. No more aimbots using the hull MG or main gun.

            2) Increase the timer at the supply depots to resupply/repair the tanks.

            There's still no ETA on the release of the SDK, but I have a feeling once it's released there will be something widely available to address each of those problems.

            Intrepid, the problem with the "cone of fire" is that the maps are so small a decent tanker can effectively turn that "cone" into about 70% of the map. I know because I've done it on Pavlov's House (40 kills in 5 minutes). Where I was positioned, there was no way for the Allied T-34s or infantry to flank my Panzer IV. I just sat on an ammo depot and lobbed HE shells into the last CP until friendly infantry moved to secure it. I have a feeling this is going to become more prominent as people learn the maps and the ins-and-outs of tanking. But, like I said, I have my fingers crossed that with the release of the SDK there are others out there who don't care for the AI crew and a solution will become readily available.

            On another note, I was able to tank with BigGayAl (ManBearPig) for one round tonight on FallenFighters. We were in the T-34 and artillery killed us once, but otherwise once we sat on an ammo depot we never died for the rest of the round. We didn't really chew up infantry, but we were successful in taking out the Panzer IV's at least 4-5 times and by the time they respawned we were back to 100% health.

            Also, as a piece of trivia, if the hull MG is crewed by a human player the death message icon shows up as a skull-and-crossbones (like the fixed MGs do).




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