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Thread: Admin tools

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    Tempus's Avatar

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    Question Admin tools

    What are you guys using? Rcon blows. There is a new HLSW. Will that work here?

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    Twisted_Firestarter's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    From what I read the new version of HLSW does work with CS: Source (http://www.csnation.net/viewnews.php/7664/) so you can spend less time typing "Stick to the objectives. Guard the hostages: Terrorists may not go outside the building" and more time playing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tempus
    What are you guys using? Rcon blows. There is a new HLSW. Will that work here?
    Twisted Firestarter
    a.k.a |TG| Harkonian

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    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    The forums at Sourcemod.net already have admin plugins, but they are far from supported and very beta. I don't yet know much about them, but people report using them with success.

    They include basic functions like kick, ban, say, and slay.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    Re: Admin tools

    Nice, things are looking-up.

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    DeRanger's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempus
    What are you guys using? Rcon blows. There is a new HLSW. Will that work here?
    I just installed HLSW on my server and was completely suprised at just how little it does in comparison to plain rcon.

    It does automate kicking/banning with a right click, etc. but the chat feature is almost useless. I would have thought they would add support for a battery of admin messages whereby one could just use a dropdown and choose them then just click to say it on the server. Instead you have to do the same as you would with rcon and scroll/copy/paste/enter or type your messages raw, just like rcon. Perhaps one could write a bunch of configs with different /say messages in them and run them as auxilliary programs from inside HLSW but I'm not going to waste my time.

    This program has potential but I certainly can't recommend installing it on our server right now. I might be missing something but aside from the nice GUI, the info about the server it provides and the automation of kickid/banid/banip, etc. it doesn't have that many usable features.

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    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    HLSW is not a server-side program. It's an administration client that you run on your workstation.

    I use it to offer support to people playing Natural Selection when I'm not on the server, and I plan to begin doing so immediately for those who are playing on the CSS server.

    I'll occasionally say hello, ask if everything is OK, and settle any problems identified by players I trust.

    Become familiar with HLSW... what it is and what it isn't. Its only job, from an administrative standpoint, is to allow remote administration of a box you're not presently playing on. No, it's not perfect. Yes, there is room for improvement. But it's very powerful in its design alone, much less its implementation.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    Re: Admin tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    HLSW is not a server-side program. It's an administration client that you run on your workstation.
    Yeah, I know I've just been playing with it for an hour or so. I guess when I said I had installed it on my server it was misleading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    ...and I plan to begin doing so immediately for those who are playing on the CSS server.
    So every TG player will have rcon to the server, is that what you're saying? If so I don't think that's a very good idea but what do I know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    Become familiar with HLSW... what it is and what it isn't. Its only job, from an administrative standpoint, is to allow remote administration of a box you're not presently playing on. No, it's not perfect. Yes, there is room for improvement. But it's very powerful in its design alone, much less its implementation.
    Better than rcon, yes sure.

    Do you have plans to draw-up some admin resources for the existing admins as well as these others who will have run of the server with HLSW? Paul probably has the old N42 admin conduct page kicking around somewhere that can have the adminmod stuff edited out for everyone's use. I could start compiling some jibber-jabber also if it would help?

    I must also say at this juncture and with all due respect that I don't appreciate being told what to do and what not to do on the server in terms of admin'ing by someone who just drops-in out of the blue every once in a while despite the fact that you have been deemed head admin or some reasonable faccimile. See the comment above about official "resources" above if you are worried about my or other admin's conduct. Where were you when myself, Tempus and Overlag as well as the few regular TG players have been tolerating and dealing with the literally hundreds of "undesirables" that wander in off the net?

    Don't take the above paragraph the wrong way but I had to get this off my chest.

    Cingular is ready to delete CS: S because of the lack of admin presence, some of the new "regulars" who want to play PCS are posting "only when admins are present do I bother playing" threads in here. We still haven't turned the corner on this server, I don't know if you just don't have the time for the CS server and are spread too thin with everything else you do at TG but please become more involved if you want to "rule the roost". Otherwise and again, with all due respect, it is difficult to take you seriously.
    Last edited by DeRanger; 12-12-2004 at 05:48 PM.

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    Re: Admin tools

    Respect noted. Thank you.

    I said I would offer support, not rcon. Read again. I'm not giving rcon to anyone.

    Also, please read carefully the following.

    The console should only be used to convey administrative messages. I have asked both you and Overlag to not use it to casually converse with players when you die before they do (and they can't see your text). I don't recall making any other requests of you.

    I was bothered by your "Final Warning" message to the entire server (sent from the Console, so they might have thought I sent that) despite the presence of another admin. Instead of saying anything at the time, I showed my respect to you in silence. I have an administrative technique that differs from the approach you were using at the time. I observed you announcing rules and then threatening action. That approach has it's place, but I didn't see it necessary at the time. I give players more warning, more explanation, more .. time.. to understand what we are and why we act the way we do. Hell yes I know how to kick and ban people, but I don't see the need for "Final Warning" messages... because that's a threat, and that's CONFRONTATIONAL, and it riles people, especially younger ones who may otherwise turn out to be wonderful regulars on the server. Meh, my technique is to just warn, warn, warn, kick. That gets their attention without threatening. If they like the server, they'll come back immediately, realizing they're walking away from a good thing if they don't. If not, I've removed a problem without coming across to the other visitors on the server like a power-tripping admin who likes to deal in threats (to be clear, that's not what you are.. we're talking about how I'm perceived, not what I am) instead of solutions (you regularly offer solutions).

    I don't play on the CSS server when the NS server is active, and its due to hardware resources (the NS & CSS servers are on the same box). My first staff obligation at TG is to maintain and support the Natural Selection players. When the CSS and NS servers are both active at the same time, the NS players experience lag very much to the detriment of gameplay.

    I can't solve that problem, but I'm not going to exacerbate it by adding another player to the cause of the lag that the NS players are experiencing. Fortunately, Natural Selection regulars continue to become Tactical Gamer supporting members, so I continue to hope that it won't be toooo much longer before these two games don't step on each other's toes (or claws, as the case may be).

    The Natural Selection server is full every night, and the night time is the only time I have to play. You see where this is heading, but I did enjoy admining the CSS server this afternoon. My efforts secured two people who showed an interest in becoming regulars. Not bad for an afternoon's work.

    Now that I have HLSW, I'll be spending a lot more time admining the CSS server remotely when I don't see another admin present.

    I have new solutions for the CS server, but I'm waiting for the CS admins forum to be created before I discuss them, as it's information that need only be shared with the administrators.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  17. #9

    DeRanger's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

    The console should only be used to convey administrative messages. I have asked both you and Overlag to not use it to casually converse with players when you die before they do (and they can't see your text.
    Will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    I was bothered by your "Final Warning" message to the entire server (sent from the Console, so they might have thought I sent that) despite the presence of another admin. Instead of saying anything at the time, I showed my respect to you in silence. I have an administrative technique that differs from the approach you were using at the time. I observed you announcing rules and then threatening action. That approach has it's place, but I didn't see it necessary at the time. I give players more warning, more explanation, more .. time.. to understand what we are and why we act the way we do. Hell yes I know how to kick and ban people, but I don't see the need for "Final Warning" messages... because that's a threat, and that's CONFRONTATIONAL, and it riles people, especially younger ones who may otherwise turn out to be wonderful regulars on the server. Meh, my technique is to just warn, warn, warn, kick. That gets their attention without threatening. If they like the server, they'll come back immediately, realizing they're walking away from a good thing if they don't. If not, I've removed a problem without coming across to the other visitors on the server like a power-tripping admin who likes to deal in threats (to be clear, that's not what you are.. we're talking about how I'm perceived, not what I am) instead of solutions (you regularly offer solutions)..
    Confrontational? Me?

    That is not the way I am in general on the server but if ignorance begets confrontation then so be it.

    Unfortunately my patience is being tested more and more lately and I should just leave and forget about typing a word but I took-on the duty and want to make things the best I can for the regulars we do have. I am so sick and tired of typing the same thing over and over, explaining basic stuff for the most part requiring only that people read it and when I do so twice or three times and a player or players still insists on either ignoring or disregarding this than they'll get kicked if they're lucky. I don't care, they're gone. I'd like to hear from a couple of the regular players on this actually because perhaps I am being too strict but I really doubt it. Perhaps I should just leave the admin'ing to others but there are rarely any "others" on the server at all, Overlag usually and that is it.

    Here it is folks, your segue to tell DeRanger what you think about his admin presence, I'd sincerely like to know. Let me have it if you must...

    I've been thinking of just forgetting about admin'ing at all and playing while the games are good, leaving when things start to get a bit wild but if there are other TG people on it is hard for me to do because I feel some responsibility to ensure a fun game for them before being overly polite and patient with some 1337, spawn-rushing deathmatcher.

    I'm not trying to be confrontational but what is one supposed to do, just put-up with it and continue to type pleasant messages and get shot in spawn while doing it? Bull****, I don't think so. I am nice twice maybe three times and then the frickin' sky falls in. If a player wants to ask questions about any rule I'll type and curtail my game until my fingers bleed but I will not tolerate ignorance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    Now that I have HLSW, I'll be spending a lot more time admining the CSS server remotely when I don't see another admin present.
    How can you do that when you can't see what is going on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    I have new solutions for the CS server, but I'm waiting for the CS admins forum to be created before I discuss them, as it's information that need only be shared with the administrators.
    Great man! Looking forward to it, as a player if not an admin.


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    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    I know you're not confrontational, but ignorance DOES beget confrontation in those situations. Like I say, it's about how you're PERCEIVED, not how you ARE.

    I've been using HLSW to admin the NS server for a very long time. Just in case you didn't know, it allows you to see what players are typing and allows you to talk to them via the console. Sometimes chat makes it apparent that there is a problem. If not, I'll just break in from time to time and ask if everything is OK. If people say "No, everything is not OK," then I begin asking questions to figure out what's going on. With the help of the players, I can usually determine what needs to be done without being on the server.

    At this stage of the game, when members can't join a full server and admining is a very laborious task... well... at this stage.. admining will be just that... laborious, and little more.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  21. #11

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    Re: Admin tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    I know you're not confrontational...
    Actually I am one of the most confrontational people you might ever meet in reality and have had too many siteseeing tours in police cars to my credit and bloody knuckles because of it. I was just trying to be facetious. Oh well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    I've been using HLSW to admin the NS server for a very long time. Just in case you didn't know, it allows you to see what players are typing and allows you to talk to them via the console. Sometimes chat makes it apparent that there is a problem. If not, I'll just break in from time to time and ask if everything is OK. If people say "No, everything is not OK," then I begin asking questions to figure out what's going on. With the help of the players, I can usually determine what needs to be done without being on the server.

    At this stage of the game, when members can't join a full server and admining is a very laborious task... well... at this stage.. admining will be just that... laborious, and little more.
    You think I have to be told that admin'ing is laborious "at this stage of the game"?

    I don't know what the NS server is like but I'd imagine it doesn't need any admin presence at all usually because of the return traffic by fairly long-time regulars who know the score. We don't have the same luxury with the CS server and I would place it on the other end of the spectrum at any given time. Comparing what can be done with HLSW on the NS server and the CS server is comparing wildflower meadows to pit toilets sometimes.

    I understand all that and am quite aware of what HLSW can and cannot do. I just don't think it would be very effective at all unless/until the server is frequented with more PCS regulars in that deathmatchers are not going to be squealing on other deathmatchers about rules they don't know about. If one or two TG players find themselves in the frey they aren't going to be complaining about the majority of the server running and gunning, they'll just leave and we'll have a lovely pub deathmatch server (as has happened many times). All they will think is "Wow, great ping, I'm going to come back and inflict my 1337 skillz on those n00bs again".

    I'm reading too much into this perhaps but I think it would be futile in terms of developing a PCS server in many instances. In fact I know in some cases without at least a few regulars on the server it would be somewhat pointless.

    I simply don't think one can properly admin a server like the CS server as it is right now unless you are spec'ing or in game on quite a few occasions. No education is done, no instruction can be given as to basic PCS gameplay, its all reaction to hearsay if anything unless getting the chat from a reliable person in game.

    Again, as using HLSW itself as an absentee admin, better than nothing I guess...
    Last edited by DeRanger; 12-13-2004 at 12:21 AM.

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  23. #12

    Weenis's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    you both have very good points. the first time I played on this server was fun until piransei came up (a map which I had never played before). I remember trying to guard a bombsite from up on the tower, since I didnt know where else to go. I stayed there until I was the last one left, and then got killed pretty easily. Then an admin message popped up saying "CT's are supposed to protect the bombsites, Weenis" or something to that effect.

    All I can say is, I was trying, it was my first time on the server, it was my first time on the map, and that experience really turned me off. But I got over it and came back.

    I've also admin'd a few popular CS servers in my day even before admin mod, so I know how hard and frustrating it is to enforce the rules and enjoy playing at the same time. In fact, its damn near impossible. But as a player, a good server has admins that have the power but also have the finesse to deal with a first time player on the server. Sometimes a regular chat message will do more towards understanding a problem that a console message. If the message about guarding the bombsite that happened to me would have been from a player, and not some eye in the sky named console, maybe I would not have been so defensive.

    Look at me, now I'm rambling

    Its still a good server, the one 1st one i'll choose on my favorites, so keep up the dedication admins, you're doing a good job

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  25. #13

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Admin tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Weenis
    a good server has admins that have the power but also have the finesse
    This statement is SO powerful. Being a good admin is about PR as much as it is about anything. We're trying to sell an experience, essentially. It really does help if we're personable.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    Re: Admin tools

    Thanks Weenis, I needed that kind of insight and it will undoubtedly affect a change in my approach on the server to an extent.

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    Re: Admin tools

    no problem deranger...

    I like this server, and the whole idea behind it... I know im the new guy but I would really like to see this server sucessful so there's always good people on when I want to play. It always sucks when I get in the mood to play CS and there's no one on TG... then I'm stuck playing Tiger Woods 2005.

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