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  1. #1

    TheFeniX's Avatar

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    Basic CS tactics

    Let me start by stating a few things:

    1. Some veteran CS players might take offense to someone who is routinely at the bottom of the scoreboard preaching CS tactics to you. If so, then feel free not to read this.

    2. (and this is in no way, shape, or form an insult): CS has nothing on Natural Selection in the way of Tactics. Once you learn the maps in CS, even these basic strats can win a game everytime (random headshots aside). Being an able NS commander, I feel I can give adequate info on how not to get chewed into cat-food every round.

    3. Just like in NS, I will piss and moan in game if people are doing bone-head things. I will be even harder on the few NS players who have migrated a bit to CS. EVEN MORE SO if I've ever seen you in the command chair during an NS game. You should already know this stuff.

    And here we go:

    1. Buddy system: I can't stress this enough. You shouldn't be anywhere without a buddy unless your only goal is to make a bunch of noise as a distraction. If you get taken out before you can realy any info to your team, you have failed to bring anything to your team. All they have to work with is what gun you got killed with.

    2. Flashes: unless you are flat-broke, EVERY SINGLE player on your team should have two flashes. This game isn't meant for you to wade into three camping enemies and gun them all down without dying. It's meant for you to use their lack of mobility to your advantage.

    3. Flashes #2: Call for flashes if you are out. Don't round a blind corner without one unless it just isn't available.

    4. Flashes #3: Don't let flashes go to waste because you know it might not have been effective as much as you'd hoped. At least use the opportunity to get a peak around the corner, or to setup for another flash.

    5. Terrorists on bomb-sites: Ts CANNOT afford to get caught in gun-fights for any length of time. It then comes down to a straight death-match. When up against someone who has the advantage of more accurate fire: you will most likely lose. It's a gamble you shouldn't be taking.

    6. Flanking: Gives me a warm-fuzzy. Pinned down, but know another way around the back/side? One guy keeps them busy, the others go around. The one guy can make a whole bunch of noise to mask the approach of the other team. Straight-up fights are for suckers. I find shooting someone in the back of the head is much more satisfying then cramming my barrel into his chest hoping he dies before I do.

    7. Being pinned-down (goes back to 5): If two of your teammates round a corner and get picked off by snipers, what should you do? If you said, "Run right after them and try to kill the sniper" then just let me know and I'll shoot you in the face. At least then the CTs won't get any money from your death. Oh, and if you do this when you have the bomb, I'll knife you every round for 6 months (wyz said I could).

    8. Blocking: If a teammate gets into a fire-fight and needs to retreat, don't block him by trying to get in your own bullets. Make his escape as easy as possible. Even if he has 3 HP, he's still a body that you need to win.

    9. Listen, listen, listen: there's a long buy-time for a reason. If a plan is made, and you ask why everyone is running a certain way, then you have failed even the most basic concept of "tactics." (PS: shoot the hive).

    10. Thunder boots are for Zeus, not CS players: I shouldn't have to even explain this one.

    11. Cover your six: If there's 4 T's/CT's in a group and no one is watching the rear, you're asking to get reamed by a sneaky enemy. Watch your radar, if you're in the back make sure to stop any lead from landing there.

    12. Rushing: Ts go for a bomb rush, you have the bomb. You get to the site and it's crawling with CTs. What do you do? Plant the bomb. If the guy planting the bomb gets killed and you were closest to him, what do you do? Plant the bomb.

    The whole point of a rush is to get the bomb down before the CTs can get into defensible positions. You have teammates that should be doing the shooting for you, let them. Having the bomb down is a powerful weapon in itself. That ticking drives the CTs to run in to disarm it. They will even run in one-by-one if they aren't thinking right.

    A basic NS strat I learned the hard way is: when faced with a superior foe, force him into a position where he either:
    1. has to meet you in combat on your terms.
    2. has been stripped of his ability to determine the outcome of the game.

    If CT's are busy trying to pick off randomly firing Ts: they can't disarm the bomb. You don't have to kill them, you just have to keep them busy (Fade killing/neutralizing 101).

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  3. #2

    CingularDuality's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Very nice!

    I disagree a bit with your comment on always buying flashbangs: You've got a few things to prioritize when you've got your shopping cart out. Defuse kit is always my number one priority purchase when applicable. Body armor (vest and helmet) is always my number two priority purchase. After that, it depends on the map, my team and my enemy. I'll buy a nice pistol and nades before I'll buy an SMG with no nades. But if I can afford a rifle (M4 or AK), then I'll take that with no nades instead of an SMG with nades. Again, it depends a lot on the situation...

    The whole point of a rush is to get the bomb down before the CTs can get into defensible positions.
    This should never happen on a TG server. All maps that allowed this have been removed with the exception of Chateau, which doesn't allow the CTs to establish a complete defensive perimeter before a T rush gets there, but does allow the CT team to get there first.

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  5. #3

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Correct me if I'm wrong, Cing.

    Cing isn't saying Ts should never rush to a bombsite.

    Cing is saying no map should be on the server which allows undetered Ts faster access to a bomb point than undetered CTs.

    Rushing a bomb point as Ts, when taken in moderation, is a perfectly valid strategy.

    Fast, slow, left, right, up down. Keep 'em guessing.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  7. #4

    CingularDuality's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Exactly ...

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  9. #5

    GhostintheShell's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    I hate flashbangs in CS Source.

    Its just plain nade spamming as far as I'm concerned.

    Once in a while a flashbang is ok as a viable tactic. But, if you put two flashbangs on every player to win then I don't really want to be involved in those games.

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  11. #6

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    good stuff fenix

    Thanks!

    p.s. Smoke grenades are so invaluable. More important on alot of maps than flashes.

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  13. #7

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan
    good stuff fenix

    Thanks!

    p.s. Smoke grenades are so invaluable. More important on alot of maps than flashes.
    Smoke is ineffective on inclosed areas though. Someone last night used one and I just pump shot after shot inside there and killed whoever thought they could hide behind it.

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  15. #8

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan
    good stuff fenix

    Thanks!

    p.s. Smoke grenades are so invaluable. More important on alot of maps than flashes.

    Agreed on the smoke. Can be a very effective tactic.



    A good man stands up for himself. A great man stands up for others.

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  17. #9

    TheFeniX's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by CingularDuality
    I disagree a bit with your comment on always buying flashbangs: You've got a few things to prioritize when you've got your shopping cart out. Defuse kit is always my number one priority purchase when applicable.
    My buying regime goes like this:

    1. Kevlar + Helmet
    2. Flashbang
    3. HE Grenade
    4. Whatever else I can afford.

    It does change-up, but this increases my survivability while still allowing me to be effective in combat.

    This should never happen on a TG server. All maps that allowed this have been removed with the exception of Chateau, which doesn't allow the CTs to establish a complete defensive perimeter before a T rush gets there, but does allow the CT team to get there first.
    As it should be. But you want to hit the CTs before they get dug in. Move into the area, spread out, plant the bomb. Fire off randomly into doors and windows if you have to, just keep the CTs off the guy with the bomb.

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  19. #10


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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    I like this thread. Basics are the stuff on which all else is built. It's worthwhile stating them, esp as right now the server is NOT always filled with people that follow the basic basics(thunderboots,blocking, listening, etc)

    I'm surprised at your vehement opposition to flashes, Ghost. They seem like a legitimate and valuable tool in CS:S, and while I'm not sure I agree with the neccesity of flashing EVERY corner EVERY time and loading up EVERY player with MAX load, I don't feel that it is the wrong *ideal*. I'd say you should at least CONSIDER flashing every corner every time though. I really like them in CS:S. I find them MUCH more disorienting than the 1.6 flashes(esp the removal/dimming of sound). But they are still limited in duration and effect(range, obstacles), and I still get kills while blind, manauver succesfully to a safe spot to wait for sight to return, or if I'm further back I know where some of the enemy are and can counter with a flash to catch the oncoming enemy(thinking esp the back hallway of office). I definately buy them when I have more than $200 cash. What about them do you hate so much?

    And the rushing comment(#12) still seems valid here. While not BEATING the CT's to the objective(not on maps on THIS server), it does get you there hot on their heels, and hopefully catching them before they are COMPLETELY settled in(don't have their crosshairs zoomed in and settled on the crack in the door for instance), and giving you (hopefully) imediate overwhelming force without giving the CT's time to adjust site coverage before the bomb gets planted.

    I really like the basic "Don't fight a fair battle, try to always stack the deck in your favor" theme to a lot of your points Fenix(Flashes, Flanking, Listening, etc).

    Some of them seem a bit conservative though. (Flash EVERY corner, ALWAYS have a buddy, to pick two). And I wonder if sometimes taking a risk (don't announce yourself with a flash around a corner, bying a rifle instead of smg + falshes, splitting up to cover more spots might neccesitate doing it WITHOUT a buddy) might pay off more than 50/50. So while I think these are great guidelines, I'll break them from time to time, but I'll be paying attention to the fact that I *am* taking a gamble, which I think will help my game.

    And now for a totally humble question(and if I come off sounding like a newb, so be it). I cannot curently effectively utilize Smoke Grenades. I just do not posses the tactics to make use of them. Can someone expound on them? Right now, every time I try to use them, it acts as a two-edged sword. They can't see me, sure, but I can't see them either. I hate that.

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  21. #11

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict
    They can't see me, sure, but I can't see them either.
    Yes, that can be a problem.

    However, I often use smoke grenades in situations where I don't want them seeing me and I don't care about seeing them.

    Two very good examples:

    1. de_dust2: it's common for the Ts to observe the double doors in the middle of the map from their spawn when the round starts. Looking through these doors, they can instantly tell what amount of my CT force is moving towards B and (by assumption) what amount is moving towards A. By smoking the doors from my spawn the instant the round begins, I hold this information from the Ts. I purchase another smoke grenade before leaving spawn. Moving your force under enemy eyes early: They couldn't see me and I didn't care about seeing them.

    2. de_go_nuke: it's common that a team of Terrorists will approach the CT-defended zone via the outside route on the right (from the T perspective). This route is, for good reason, often covered extensively by CTs on the far (again: from the T perspective) side of the route. I'll often instruct my team to throw two smoke grenades into the middle of the route before moving into it. This allows us to get into position where we can really push hard on the CTs as the (or before the) smoke clears. The distance between us and the CTs is so great that it really doesn't make sense for them to fire on us through the smoke. Getting into position for an attack under enemy eyes: They couldn't see me and I didn't care about seeing them.
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  23. #12

    GhostintheShell's Avatar

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    What's been happening is the attacking team lobs in several flashbangs and run in to try and kill everyone. Thats not a "tactic", you need to use them more "surgically" and less "generally".

    People are often blinding their own teammates due to lack of warning, this is the probably the worst thing I hate about them. How many times do I have to hear, "oops sorry I didn't mean to flash us"?


    I'll use one occasionally if I happen to pick one up. Rarely ever will I buy one unless I have a specific plan for it.

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  25. #13

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    Re: Basic CS tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostintheShell
    What's been happening is the attacking team lobs in several flashbangs and run in to try and kill everyone. Thats not a "tactic", you need to use them more "surgically" and less "generally".

    People are often blinding their own teammates due to lack of warning, this is the probably the worst thing I hate about them. How many times do I have to hear, "oops sorry I didn't mean to flash us"?


    I'll use one occasionally if I happen to pick one up. Rarely ever will I buy one unless I have a specific plan for it.
    I can usually be found packing a flash or 2. I tend to find the opposite of Ghost's problem - I'll announce that I'm going to flash, and that generally incites my team mates to move directly where the flash is going. I get annoyed to the point that I will still go ahead and flash to teach them a lesson sometimes, but so far not good.

    With regard to smoke grenades, I've found that planning their use whilst not in the midst of things helps, and then going and trying what you've planned and then refining or scrapping that particular plan is the best way to learn them. If you communicate to your team that you want to try something, if it goes wrong, at least you've all learnt not to do it in that situation again :-)

    Root

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