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  1. #1

    Wolfie's Avatar

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    Medicare Bill Passed (Political Topic)

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/25/elec04.medicare/index.html

    I don't know about anyone else, but I am glad that something is being done to address the issue.

    Though the Democrats seem to be doomsayers and are constantly saying that the bill is going to cause the collapse of Medicare.

    Will it? Who knows. At least something is being tried to fix the system. And I don't mean like the Democrats plan to just throw more money into it so it says afloat a few years longer for the Baby Boomers but goes bankrupt when my generation (Gen-X) becomes senior citizens. That really pissed me off when the Democrats unveiled that plan when Clinton was in office. Basically, take my money away from me, give it to the Baby Boomers, and then the system goes bankrupted when I would be old enough to draw from it myself.

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  3. #2
    Spectre
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    This subject has me WAY too pissed to write on it now...

    Here's the real deal put shortly.

    1. Drug companies charge WAY too damn much for drugs in the U.S.A.

    2. People can't afford them.

    3. Both Reps and Dems have tried to put forth bills to regulate the drug industry which is corrupt to no end. However, since the drug companies lobbyists are in bed with so many politicians in D.C. , the bills are always shot down.

    4. So...since no-one is able to regulate the drug cartels, the Govt. gets the bright idea to help people pay for the drugs. A major part of this bill is a HUGE tax hike ( 5%) on certain tax brackets.



    In summary, the drug companies charge too much for drugs...the people can't afford them...the government can't regulate the drug companies because the drug companies have so many hands in the government...

    SOOO...the government is helping people buy drugs at inflated prices because the government WON'T do anything meaningful to make them cheaper. ALL of this is then being paid for by US.

    It makes no damn sense...giving money to people to buy a price-inflated product that you have the power to cheapen but WON'T because you're being paid by the very companies that create the problem in the first place.

    It's robbing Peter to pay Paul... FU<KING RETARDED!!! :evil: :evil:

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  5. #3
    Spectre
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    Furthermore...I'll state for the record that this is one MAJOR instance of STUPID Federal spending on the part of the Republican party.

    All the Republicans are doing is pandering to the old-goat lobbys like A.A.R.P.

    Old people are some of the whiniest and greediest people around, just because their old doesn't mean they're stupid.


    What is REALLY and truly needed is some good 'ol anti-monopoly smackdown and regulation on the drug companies (Cartels).

    As they are a major reason healthcare costs as much as it does. The amount of money they waste lobbying doctors to "prescribe" their product is insane. My ex-girlfriend Cassie is a doctor of emergency medicine. While dating her she got no less than 5 dinners and one trip to Vegas for a "seminar" that lasted the grand total of one hour...The trip included 3 days at the MGM Grand and a round-trip ticket.

    Now why in the hell does a doctor who makes $250,000+ per year need a FREE trip to Vegas for a 1 hour "educational" seminar??? So she is loyal to that drug companies products and prescribes them over just as effective generic varieties, thats why.

    Oh yeah..by the way...she got a $7,500 bonus-check from Glaxo-Welcome for prescribing their product all year. Now...lets just imagine this type of treatment expanding to the 300,000+ Physicians in this nation...NOW you're getting an idea of just how much money is being wasted by giant drug companies to ensure they and they alone maintain a stranglehold on the heathcare market.

    THIS IS WHERE YOUR MONEY GOES!!! THIS IS WHY MEDICAL COSTS ARE OUTRAGEOUS...

    Everyone has their hand in the drug-company money basket. This bill does nothing more than tax US so the people who need it can get it..at stupidly inflated prices, that pay for all that "special" treatment my ex-girlfriend and those of her type enjoy.

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  7. #4
    Spectre
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    GOD I HATE F'ING DOCTORS!!!!

    Greedy, greedy sociopaths, the whole lot of 'em.

    Doctors need to make 1/3 to 1/2 of what they make now. Salaries are out of control in the medical field, Nurses that make $80,000 a year?!?!?! For cleaning bedpans and giving Tylenol™ ?!?! ( I know they do more...but 'cmon)

    UGH...I hate the medical community...where else can a box of bandaids cost $63.00???

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  9. #5

    Wolfie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre
    In summary, the drug companies charge too much for drugs...the people can't afford them...the government can't regulate the drug companies because the drug companies have so many hands in the government...
    Eh

    I really don't agree with this statement for the following reasons:

    A) Drug companies spend billions of dollars each quarter on R&D to develop drugs to combat illnesses.

    B) Drug companies have to get their drugs approved by the FDA before they can be released to the general public. Tons of drugs get turned down for various reasons each year. The money spent researching the new drug is wasted and has to be made up in other areas.

    C) Drug companies are taking a big risk in developing new drugs, so it is understandable that they are rewarded well for any drug breakthroughs they make.

    D) US drug companies are the front runners when it comes to developing new drugs that benefit society (in terms of how long it takes to bring a drug to the market, the quality of the drug, and the safety of the patient).

    Until someone can come up with a better method of researching, validating, and bringing forth new drugs to the market, the US system seems to be the best system in improving health care (IMHO).

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  11. #6
    Spectre
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre
    In summary, the drug companies charge too much for drugs...the people can't afford them...the government can't regulate the drug companies because the drug companies have so many hands in the government...
    Eh

    I really don't agree with this statement for the following reasons:

    A) Drug companies spend billions of dollars each quarter on R&D to develop drugs to combat illnesses.

    B) Drug companies have to get their drugs approved by the FDA before they can be released to the general public. Tons of drugs get turned down for various reasons each year. The money spent researching the new drug is wasted and has to be made up in other areas.

    C) Drug companies are taking a big risk in developing new drugs, so it is understandable that they are rewarded well for any drug breakthroughs they make.

    D) US drug companies are the front runners when it comes to developing new drugs that benefit society (in terms of how long it takes to bring a drug to the market, the quality of the drug, and the safety of the patient).

    Until someone can come up with a better method of researching, validating, and bringing forth new drugs to the market, the US system seems to be the best system in improving health care (IMHO).
    Sorry Wolfie, but on this one we differ. They may spend billions on research...but the amount of money thrown away in special interests and promotion is rediculous. The drug business is in great need of reform, if it isn't why does my Grandfather buy all his drugs from Canada???

    Massive reform is needed here. Period.

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  13. #7

    Wolfie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie

    Until someone can come up with a better method of researching, validating, and bringing forth new drugs to the market, the US system seems to be the best system in improving health care (IMHO).
    Sorry Wolfie, but on this one we differ. They may spend billions on research...but the amount of money thrown away in special interests and promotion is rediculous. The drug business is in great need of reform, if it isn't why does my Grandfather buy all his drugs from Canada???

    Massive reform is needed here. Period.
    Note I said until someone can come up with something better. I agree, there does have to be changes made. But first we need to come up with something better. Could the government do a better job in researching and developing new drugs? That is always an option. Or maybe government assistance to smaller companies to help them get into the market and give the big drug companies a run for their money (competition is always the best form of price reduction)?

    You mentioned Canada but it should be pointed out that even though their drugs are cheaper, they pay more in taxes than Americans do each year. So there is a trade off. To Americans, their drugs are cheaper overall yet we don't have to pay the Canadian taxes. I am curious as to what the actual price is in regards to Canadian drugs when you take into account these differences.

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  15. #8

    Geisha's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre
    Doctors need to make 1/3 to 1/2 of what they make now. Salaries are out of control in the medical field, Nurses that make $80,000 a year?!?!?! For cleaning bedpans and giving Tylenol™ ?!?! ( I know they do more...but 'cmon)
    Doctors and nurses are paid a lot because:
    1) they're in serious college-loan debt after 10 years of school
    2) they're doing a job that most people either don't want or can't qualify for (think market price for sports stars)
    3) many of them are on call for weekends, third shift and holidays-which is hard on families

    I don't think medical salaries are out of whack, except perhaps for my anesthesiologist uncle-in-law.

    On the other hand, the perks you described are pure bribery. Is the $25 rule across the board, or is it just common to certain industries?

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  17. #9


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    *Warning: The following post is entirely from the mind of Lirix. It's a dangerous place where 1+1 does not necessarily equal 2. Yes, he's nuts and he knows it.*

    When I first understood what medicare was for, I didn't take to it well. You'll find that anytime you tell me the government is going to help, I'm generally looking at you like you're the crazy one. As it stands, I do believe that medical costs are outrageous. But we live in a capitalistic society. That means that people with a product can charge whatever the market will bear.

    Why do sports stars make millions playing a GAME? Because the market will pay insane ticket prices to be entertained. Actors? Same deal. Doctors? Because people will do extravagent things to remain healthy, and even more so to stay alive.

    The first two examples would be easily recognized as luxuries, but most people don't really follow my logic on that third one. Suffice it to say that the costs will come down the moment that people figure out that adding years to one's life isn't nearly as productive as adding life to one's years. Me? I'm going to die young, God willing. I eat to survive, but I don't bother eating things that I dislike(which is an extensive list). I don't exercise much, but I do occasionally enjoy working out(which is when I bother doing it). I currently hold a job that pays only slightly better than minimum wage, but I have FUN doing it(I've even threatened to move in where I work so I can be there all the time).

    And if I died right now, I wouldn't bemoan the fact that I was so young, energetic, or full of potential. I can't think of anything that I'd regret.

    *We now return you to your normal forum viewing.*

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  19. #10


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    Spectre has it right. It's all summed up by a single word ***GreeD***

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  21. #11
    Spectre
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruusher
    Spectre has it right. It's all summed up by a single word ***GreeD***
    GREED...

    Damn straight...

    Capatalism is just dandy...but when you have multinational drug-cartels effecting the very legislation that gets passed because they can afford to MASSIVELY lobby (pay off, bribe, etc.) the same politicians that draft the laws...you have a problem.

    A HUGE stinking nasty problem. It's called corruption. We need Bobby Kennedy these days to persue the drug-cartels like he did with Jim Hoffa.

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  23. #12


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    Our federal government has been in desperate need of reform for quite some time. It's going to be quite a while longer before we see any meaningful reform. And the biggest holdup in the entire system is the people who either don't vote because they don't see the point or the near complete lack of factual information concerning the legislation.

    Here's something that has always struck me as odd. Somehow, the federal government gets put in charge of providing education to our children from K-12. Does that strike anyone else as a recipe for disaster?

    As it turns out, I have MS. I also happen to lack insurance in any medical capacity at this time. So I'm looking at something to the tune of $1000/month for the drugs that every doctor says I need to start taking right away to slow the progression of the disease. According to the literature, MS is rarely fatal once diagnosed and treated properly.

    Of course, the same literature also says that symptoms vary in intensity, duration, and frequency from patient to patient. Not to mention the variations 'tween relapsing, remitting, relapsing-remitting, etc, etc. I find it amazing they ever found a way to adequately test the stuff, much less find something that works.

    Personally, I can't argue well for them being too expensive or not. I don't think I'd trust them enough to use them no matter their monetary cost. But I'm fairly certain I'm nuts. :P

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  25. #13

    CingularDuality's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lirix
    Here's something that has always struck me as odd. Somehow, the federal government gets put in charge of providing education to our children from K-12.
    What is your basis for this statement?

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  27. #14


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    Public education is financed in large part by federal tax dollars(or at least I've been put under the impression that it is, and what isn't these days). Do you really think future voters should be influenced that early and that long by the body that it votes for? Sure could make it easier to pass through "empowering" legislation if those voters would just ask for it. And if you don't think that financing is buying message time, you have far more faith in the system than I.

    But I'm a "minimalist" where government is concerned. Not to mention greatly apathetic to society at large, especially these days.

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  29. #15

    luna's Avatar

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    Nurses make 80k for cleaning bedpans? Where? Hook me up!

    I was looking at 40k to help moms have their babies, at best. Maybe I ought to drop my teaching goals and move over towards nursing.

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