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  1. #1


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    Onos in small game rule/complaint

    Myself and my clanmates have been frequenting your server lately, and the experience had been a generally good one (kudos), until today. Evidently, there is a rule regarding the use of Onos in small games, one which is not included in your list of rules (conmotd) shown while joining or (as far as I could tell) listed in the forums. From what I gathered from my teammates, the rule is that in "small games" (less than 6 marines) aliens are not allowed to use Onos. Now, in the game where this incident occured, one of my clanmates, who had no knowledge of this rule, went Onos. The game was a 5v5, and up to that point marines had been in the lead (closing in on our only hive). He went Onos and started fighting the marines off (quite successfully). He was attacking your base, when suddenly, with no verbal warning of any kind, an admin exec'd 'kill' on his console. If I remember correctly, the exec plugin for AMX doesn't show any on-screen message if left to default, thou the admins may have altered that. He has told me he does not have 'kill' bound to any keys, and as he was in the middle of an attack, we are left with the option of an admin having exec'd kill on him. Needless to say, things went downhill for Aliens after that, we were down 100 res, and the marines were storming with shotties. While that act probably did not cause us to lose, it definitely made the remainder of the game seem very un-fair.

    First, I find this rule, as currently structured (to the best of my knowledge, as I can find no written reference of it), to be unfair. My current understanding of the rule is:

    If marines have less then 6 people, aliens cannot use Onos.

    I believe this should be altered to include:

    If aliens have less then 6 people, marines cannot use heavy armor.

    Additionally, I think once invoked, the rule should stand for an entire game. Games are not won or lost in the end, when there will usually be more than 6 people per side, but instead in the start and mid games (where we were when our Onos was killed). Marines, if following this rule, can have quite a bit of extra res on the side, as Level 3 armor marines with HMG's tend to be rather difficult for even a fade to kill. If a 6th person were to join aliens (since, in this specific scenario, they would most likely be loosing), marines would then be free to use HA, making them nearly impossible to kill. This, combined with the fact that Aliens will have no Onos, make for a rather quick (an arduous) ending for Aliens.

    Personally, I think this rule to be absurd, but it is your right to implement it on your server, and I respect that. What I am taking issue with is:
    [list]
    A. The rule is not posted on conmotd with the rest of your rules (or anywhere else I believe, though I may be wrong)

    B. When you admin enforced the rule, he (or she) did not tell us why our Onos was being killed. If we are not told of our infractions, we will make them again. Simply killing the Onos and assuming is not suffice; part of an admins responsibility is to tell people why these actions are being taken against them.

    C. The above listed requested changes to the rule (which can be further defended/discussed once I actually see what the rule is...)[/list:u]

    Now, assuming there is no such rule, and your admin killed our Onos for some personal reason, I would leave it to your leaders to deal with that.

    As I have said, so far we have enjoyed your server, and except for this one incident, I have found it to be a fun place to play. I am only posting this because I believe you all have a good server, and a good group of people playing there.

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  3. #2
    Bebhead
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    Re: Onos in small game rule/complaint

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend
    when suddenly, with no verbal warning of any kind, an admin exec'd 'kill' on his console.
    i can't say much about that incident because i wasn't there but alot of the times our admins will tend to boot people without letting them know exactly why they might have been booted. Like for example (this applies to me especially) i will see people say a swear word by mistake and then before they can even say oops sorry, it honestly slipped. There is an admin booting them out of the server. I think alot of our have to stop jumping the gun so much and if they are at least tell the person why they are gonna get booted...(of course i dont mean all admins, the ones who do know who they are)

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  5. #3

    _Ender_'s Avatar

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    As far as I know it wasnt really a "rule" but more like a "gentlemans agreement". But if its 5 on 5 then I would imagine the Onos evolution would be fair game since 5 on 5 is hardly a small game. I always thought it was more for the 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 games.

    I personally never got it to begin with.

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  7. #4

    Sniper's Avatar

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    1. I didnt know amx had an exec kill
    2. You sure he's not just trying to get someone in trouble? It would have appeared in console if something was trying to exec him. Next time, take a Screenshot of your console, command or no command.
    3. You seem cool, I see no reason (unless you.your clan did something is game.
    4. Usually they will warn you if your new to the community.
    5. I dont think they you "kill" you.
    6. just to be understood, i'm not against you in any way, just some things i've learned over the past

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  9. #5
    Emanon
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    As an admin, I slay people that go onos early on games with small teams 4vs3 and smaller. I do not slay them when the onos is actually needed like in late games and when aliens are cornered.

    Things happen, let it go.

    There are many topics about this so please read them on our discussions about this.

    Also amx_slay (admin slay command) Executes kill.

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  11. #6

    verbose's Avatar

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    I comm'd that game, and have a very different opinion on the state of the game when the Onos appeared. I said something over voicecomm like "you've got to be kidding me, someone went onos." I then typed out that we have a gentleman's agreement about Onos in small games. As I was busy working the chair, I did not see whether the Onos was killed by fire or by a client kill command. I would have been surprised if the Onos had been shot down, as the marines were getting crushed by him, so admin intervention is plausible.

    Particulars aside, there is an unwritten agreement to not use Onos in games where it would swing the balance far out of proportion. No hard limit on team size; people are trusted to have good judgment.

    I don't sweeping object to an Onos in a 5v5, but not as early in the game as the one in question appeared. We had no time to tech to any kind of counter. If there's 4 marines running around in heavy armor, that's an entirely different story, and I welcome an Onos. But the Onos in question was extremely unbalancing, based on my comm chair assessment.

    Perhaps something should be put in the consgreet about the Onos agreement?

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  13. #7

    billybob's Avatar

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    when i am aliens in a small game ie.. marines have 4 or less...
    i politely ask my team (aliens to not go onos until they have 5)...

    i am not and admin so i dont have the power to stop them from going onos but by not going onos on a small game (marines 4 or less) it makes the game last longer and be more exciting.

    but once marines have 5 or they have a team of 4 fully equiped HA HMG ill say do what you gotta do to kill them...

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  15. #8
    Emanon
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    Give me an HMG and I fear no onos, Fades are another story.

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  17. #9


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    I must have missed what you said Verbose (I think a marine was trying to kill me, so I wasn't watching what people were saying). I think a metion of this in the conmotd would definitly help to prevent future incidents of this nature. As for the exact nature of this comment, I don't know, but something would be helpful. As far as admin notification, it would be nice, but that is your call.

    Also, the amx_exec command I was refering to is a plugin which existed for the pre-0.97 versions (or whenever the new plugin format came to be) which allowed you to execute commands on a clients console. Back when I used it, it made no log entry, nor notification of the admins action, thus the reason I thought you might have been using it.

    Either way, I am glad to see we could discuss this with out it begin a flame war ( as things with gaming go so often these days....)

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  19. #10

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    i agree with reverend

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  21. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend
    Either way, I am glad to see we could discuss this with out it begin a flame war ( as things with gaming go so often these days....)
    This is tactical gamer after all. Flamethrowers are awfully brutish. We prefer precision weapons

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  23. #12
    Emanon
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    I think a metion of this in the conmotd would definitly help to prevent future incidents of this nature. As for the exact nature of this comment, I don't know, but something would be helpful.
    Even if we do mention this, there will always be public players that dont read.

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  25. #13

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    We don't have a rule about end-game hiding being illegal. However, if you've been the only marine alive for several minutes, and an admin has given warning, you'll likely be slain without a "rule" to back it up. I present this scenario only to point out that admins rule on the server, and their judgment is final. Complaints regarding their actions should not deter gameplay, and preferrably should be handled either publicly/maturely in the forums (thank you, Reverend) or else privately.

    I trust the admins, and so do our regulars. Any admin who regularly acts without merit will lose his admin rights. THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED, and I doubt it ever will.

    That having been said, no admin should be slaying you for being an onos. WE DON'T HAVE A RULE AGAINST EARLY ONOS. I want one, but I've yet to be able to garner the support to get one. Yes, I'm top admin, but admins don't like rules set around here without support from the regulars. So far, I've yet to see that support.

    The solution, which I helped start, and which started small but has since grown widespread amongst our regulars, is the "gentlemen's agreement" referred to earlier in this thread. Perhaps we'll get this in the conmotd soon. I'm all for anything that avoids misunderstandings.

    In the meantime, Reverend, thank you for handling this like an adult. I'm glad we had a chance to make a good impression on you before this happened, and I hope that you continue to enjoy your time on our server, and in our community.

    Be well.
    Wyzcrak

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  27. #14

    Yellow-Asterisk's Avatar

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    Reverend i am glad to see you handled this very well. you posted your problem in a non ofensive manner and we solved the problem with no arguing. i wish more people like you would come to the server. Hope to see you ingame.

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  29. #15

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanon
    I think a metion of this in the conmotd would definitly help to prevent future incidents of this nature. As for the exact nature of this comment, I don't know, but something would be helpful.
    Even if we do mention this, there will always be public players that dont read.
    He didn't say adding it to the conmotd would end world hunger. He just said it would help. And if enough regulars feel this way about early Onos, then adding a message to the conmotd might help.

    Wyzcrak

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