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  1. #1

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    'Terrorist attack' on high school....

    .... or at least that's what Jesse Jackson would have you believe.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/02/60II/main597488.shtml

    I read this article, and only one thing comes to mind: when I acted like an idiot growing up, my high school rector (principle) did whatever it took to stop it. It's been 10 years, and I continue to appreciate that every day. His tactics were often considered extreme by the parents of other schools (and sometimes the parents of our school), but they WORKED.

    Wyzcrak

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  3. #2
    FireMarshal
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    Interesting Article... wonder how this will pan out..

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  5. #3


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    when i was in highschool we had drug searches every now and then but they never held a gun to my face.
    4 and 3 and 2 and 1 when im on the mic the suckas run.

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  7. #4

    luna's Avatar

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    If this happened at our local high school, I would be behind that principal, 100%. Harsh, yes. Unreasonable? Absolutely not.

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  9. #5
    FireMarshal
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    agreed

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  11. #6

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    I don't want the government teaching my child "life lessons": it's done such a wonderful job teaching mathematics.

    Why did the police have their weapons drawn in the first place? I'm not a cop and don't know their sop's, but do they shove a gun in the face of every teenager they think might have a quarter bag in their pants? When is a police officer supposed to draw his or her weapon?

    If some jackass put a gun in my child's face wihout VERY good cause I'd want his f'ing head on a platter and I'd want to put it there myself.

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  13. #7

    CK's Avatar

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    I don't know about down in the US, but up here simply drawing your weapon is a *very* serious thing, you'd better have a good reason.

    Can you just *imagine* if a cop had accidentally fired his weapon and killed a kid?

    My brother is RCMP and their standard issue sidearm does not have an old fashioned "safety" per se like when I was younger, the "safety" is a) the catch on the holster, or b) having the clip out (even with a round in the chamber, the clip out turns safety on). When the officer draws his weapon, it's gtg.

    Here in Toronto they call stuff like that a "High Risk Takedown", and they only do that when it's *actually* high risk.

    I really doubt they had sufficient reason to believe that they would face lethal force while doing their searches.

    The fact that they found absolutely nothing tells me that they've got an over-zealous principal who has been staring his 78 shiny new video camera's a bit too hard.

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  15. #8
    FireMarshal
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    In a situation like that it is a tough call... there may be circumstances not mentioned in that news item... but I will tell you after I have seen all the weapons I have seen taken off of kids and as dangerous as some are when they know they are in trouble I myself have had them stare at a barrel...

    The way I look at it is I am going home at the end of the night... Noone and I mean noone will stop me... I dont care if there 13 or 30... if you could be a potential threat... and its either me shoot a kid that has a weapon or "draw down" on a kid to keep him trying to use a weapon.. Or let them shoot me and let my daughters go through life without a father... I will tell you that someone will be losing a child... If there adult enough to think they can take a human life at that age over dope... and or to carry a weapon... there adult enough to die for putting another human in danger...

    Then look at it another way... if a kid freaks cause he knows he will be busted... and has a weapon.. and sees cops all standing there with nothin... he grabs his knife or dads little .38 he stole and takes your child hostage... Had the police already been in an offensive mode / posture.. he may have thought twice before pulling his weapon...

    There are limitless scenerios... but I have to say that it is better to be safe than sorry... and just for grins... here is another saying I was taught...

    " I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6" (refering to 12 jurors instead of 6 pall bearers)

    FM

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  17. #9


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    Wish my school would do this, so many kids would be busted. Huge drug problem in my school. We were on i think like ABC, due to a rising heroin addiction in school.
    - 52

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  19. #10

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    Re: 'Terrorist attack' on high school....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

    I read this article, and only one thing comes to mind: when I acted like an idiot growing up, my high school rector (principle) did whatever it took to stop it. It's been 10 years, and I continue to appreciate that every day. His tactics were often considered extreme by the parents of other schools (and sometimes the parents of our school), but they WORKED.

    Wyzcrak
    There is a big difference between "a principle who wantst to clean up his school" and one who is just plain f-ing crazy, and I'm sorry, this guy is just plain crazy. He is a lawsuit just waiting to happen.

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  21. #11

    en4rcment's Avatar

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    I have to agree with Firemarshal here...

    I have also seen BETTER weapons than I carry pulled out of the waistbands and jacket pockets of 13 year olds. I have also drawn down on 13 y/o's in many high threat situations.

    I also know from experience that the media story vs what really happened are two totally different things. I am often involved in an arrest and then see it reported in my local paper or news channel with all the facts wrong.

    What we don't know here is WHY the police officers had their weapons drawn. If they honestly believed that there might be weapons on some of the students, this is a good call. To be honest, if the narcotics problem is so bad in this school that the police needed to be brought in, something tells me there might be some weapons amongst the dealers and suppliers.

    On the other extreme, if the police officers did not really believe that there were weapons among the students and were pointing loaded weapons at them as a scare tactic, we all would probably agree that this is wrong.

    We must always remember when speaking out about police actions where our friends or family were involved that the police need to have some power to stop citizens and try to prevent crimes. No one is happy when their friend or family member gets spread over the hood of a police car because they match the description of a robbery suspect. However, if you or your family members were robbed, you would want the police to check suspects matching the descriptions for weapons and evidence.

    A police action which is just will always weather the storm of public opinion. I think an investigation will show whether these officers were conducting a high risk search or trying to frighten the citizentry they protect.

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  23. #12

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by en4rcment
    To be honest, if the narcotics problem is so bad in this school that the police needed to be brought in, something tells me there might be some weapons amongst the dealers and suppliers.

    On the other extreme, if the police officers did not really believe that there were weapons among the students and were pointing loaded weapons at them as a scare tactic, we all would probably agree that this is wrong.
    Totally agree, and FM is right on. The parents of this school have endorsed this principle for over 20 years... that has to be good for something when judging the character of the principle and the parents. It doesn't take anything more than a coked-up teenager to kill some kid's mother or father who is wearing a badge.

    Nobody got shot. Hopefully it scared the hell out of 13 year old Andrew Higgins, or whatever his name really may be, who was going to take his first hit behind the dumpster after school that day.

    Wyzcrak

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  25. #13

    leejo's Avatar

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    Well let's assume that everything you imagine happened - that some kid or kids were carrying uzi's and had a sackfull of drugs. Can you imagine a worse place to choose to stop and search such a person than in the middle of a school?

    If the police were able to surveil these kids for several days, why not send an unmarked car or two our to see where they lived (or get Mabel the school secretary to ID them and look up their address!!), and stop/search them the next morning as they came out of their homes? Why wait until there were innocent children around to make your move?

    The cops have the right to defend themselves, but this seems like a poorly-conceived plan.

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  27. #14

    H-Hour's Avatar

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    En4rc, are cops taught violence of action in takedowns like this? It seems to me like that was the idea here.

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  29. #15

    en4rcment's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by H-Hour
    En4rc, are cops taught violence of action in takedowns like this? It seems to me like that was the idea here.
    Of course we are. The SWAT teams and raid (narcotics) teams use it more than the normal patrol officer though. Although I have used it on many occasions.


    Leejo- Police must often act when they have the highest probability of catching the criminals with the goods. You'd be surprised how quickly UZIs and and sackfuls of drugs can vanish into thin air when the criminals have an extra second to prepare. Of course this must always be weighed with public safety. Obviously the police felt they could control the situation by getting everyone down on the ground with hands visible. In hindsight, it does seem that this school could use permanent security officers performing metal detection and weapons frisking to students entering the school, instead of relying on high-risk police style raids on a large community of students. I'm sure the spotlight this story has had on the department will make them weigh "other" options in future narcotics operations involving high school drug trafficking.

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