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  1. #1

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    I have an... idea.. that I want everyone's feedback on.

    The more people I talk to, the more I hear that people enjoy NS on our server more than they enjoy CO on our server. Ideally, people would be quite happy to have a very active NS-Only server played by the regulars that make our server great.

    But no one wants to join an empty NS server and run around an empty map or play a 3v3 (or smaller) NS game. So, CO is the answer... except that CO gets old fast, and small games of CO are proving to be just as frustrating for people who don't enjoy small NS games.

    So the other day I read somewhere about Whichbot's new alien bot version that supports NS 3.xb3 and CO. So I figure... what the hell.. let's see what these bots have to offer. I threw them on the server and started playing against them in CO (not NS).

    Turns out they're fun for target practice, and it's very exciting when several of them attack you simultaneously (they're designed to attack in packs when possible). They do evolve into higher lifeforms and get upgrades, but they rely almost exclusively on their slot1 abilities when in battle. Suffice it to say they're not at all replacements for human opponents. But, for argument's sake, accept that they are fun to shoot at while you wait for a server to fill up in preparation for a quality game of NS.

    Ok, so here's my brainstorm. I see the bots as a potential tool in helping to populate an NS-only server. Here's the idea...

    We advertise the server as NS only and run CO maps until there are enough players to play NS (not that it matters for the sake of discussion, but I'm thinking.. 9 human players).

    When you join the empty server, you're on a CO map with bots on the alien team. The bots entertain you, so long as NS is coming soon. Above all else, the following is critical for this idea to work (dunno how to do this yet, but that doesn't matter right now):
    IT IS BLATANTLY APPARANT TO YOU AS AN INCOMING PLAYER THAT THE ONLY REASON THE NS-ONLY SERVER IS RUNNING A CO MAP IS TO GIVE PLAYERS ___SOMETHING TO DO___ WHILE THEY WAIT FOR ENOUGH PLAYERS TO PLAY A REAL-DEAL NS GAME. YOU HAVE FULL FAITH AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CO MAP WILL CHANGE TO AN NS MAP THE MOMENT ENOUGH PLAYERS ARE ON THE SERVER. AFTER ALL, YOU JOINED THE SERVER BECAUSE IT WAS NS-ONLY.

    I'm tired and I remember what else to mention about this brainstorm. I've already discussed this in detail with some of you in ready rooms. Please post anything I'm forgetting here.

    Otherwise, what do you guys think about this idea? I see it as a potential to keep us always moving toward NS (our preferred gameplay mode) without boring the hell out of the people who join the server before everyone else.

    Wyzcrak
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  3. #2
    tycho
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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    I dislike this idea alot. I dont like bots, and never have. I dont need to have some second rate bot entertain me while I wait for more players.

    I vote a strong no.

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  5. #3

    Nightfire's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    UNLESS if the bots are good players, i vote against the idea.

    besides, even if you were to do so, you should make the bots obvious that they are not real players. the last thing people wants would be deception.

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  7. #4

    Zek's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    The bots would never come into Classic, and the map wouldn't change until there are 9 human players. It's also obvious that they are not real; they all have a [wb] tag, and Wyz tells me he's changing it to [bot] as well as adding a number of messages explaining the bot situation.

    I really despise combat right now, and I think it's hard to come up with a suggestion that is worse than 2v2 or 3v3 combat for an hour or more before there are enough for NS. I'm all for trying this idea out. It's more fun doing co-op with other regulars against the bots than pissing eachother off with spawncamping and the like. One question. though; we've already established that the bots are only fun when they really outnumber you, right? What happens when the server fills up a little more and gets closer to 9 people? With the 14 player cap, there would be less bots than players.
    Last edited by Zek; 03-28-2004 at 01:23 AM.

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  9. #5

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    Don't worry about how to solve problems with this idea right now. Simply identify problems and we'll worry about solving them later. Without some positive light on this idea, it'll die soon.

    Wyzcrak
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  11. #6

    Yellow-Asterisk's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    Wyz knows my feelings on this matter. but i will repeate them here as well. I like the idea the novolty of c0ombat wheres off fast. espectialy small game combat. With the addition of the NS only server, the bots serve only as a time killer. yes bots are stupid yes they get annoying but the point is that they will only be in combat. I think i of combat as a way to pass time. like a mini game you play while you wait. The bots allow that to happen with more things to shoot. Lets face it. its fun to own and you will always own bots.

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  13. #7

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    I would second the motion to try this scheme out. If it fails after a few weeks, no real loss. The main benefit as I see it is that there are slightly easier things to shoot and get experience from, allowing sucky people to try out more upgrades during combat. Might it also make the server look more populous and attractive?

    Meanwhile, there's a very good chance I will download these myself. Since I am constitutionally incapable of joining our server when I can't guarantee that I'd be allowed to stick out a full NS game, getting 5-10 minutes at a time of shooting bots locally on my own machine would at least get me some practice. Thanks for the link Wyz.

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  15. #8

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisha
    Might it also make the server look more populous and attractive?
    If it does, the viewer is only going to feel duped in time. Nothing is more frustrating to a hard core NS player than THINKING they're joining an active server, or worse yet a full team ON that server, only to then realize it's all bots. That just sucks.

    That having been said, I remind everyone to not worry about how to solve problems with this idea. Simply identify them and we'll discuss how to solve them later. Problem: people will be upset when they realize they've joined a server full of bots that they assumed were human players. Resolution: prevent people from mistaking the bots for humans. How to do that: to be determined.

    Wyzcrak
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  17. #9
    Emanon
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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    I dont like the bots, its boring as hell.

    I had to make it 10 vs 1 to make it semi entertaining.

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  19. #10

    Sasuke's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    bots are hilarious, they try to bunnyhop but they don't really go anywhere. Also, they track you perfectly, so they tend to cling on you.

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  21. #11

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    personally speaking, i don't stay on a server with whichbots, even if there's one or two human players on. i don't know if anyone else feels the same

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  23. #12


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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke
    personally speaking, i don't stay on a server with whichbots, even if there's one or two human players on. i don't know if anyone else feels the same
    Bots, damn, new server.

    That's what I say when I join a server with bots on it.
    - 52

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  25. #13
    ImWithStupid
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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    1) I don't join a server with bots and 0 human players. I therefore don't know how effective this method is at getting a server filled with humans and a real game going. It therefore doesn't matter if you have a message that says, "Hey stick around and shoot the bots because they'll disappear when we get more people" because I don't join the server in the first place (easy to tell as bots have the *exact* same connect time on the server).

    2) I don't have a problem joining a 2 or 3 player CO game because I know that it'll accelerate and get filled pretty quickly.

    3) I'm rarely one of the first 2 or 3 to join a server and hop around in it until the next 2 or 3 join up and get it going.

    4) I've never had as many quality games as I enjoy on TG and I'm willing to go that extra mile to play here - so if that means being the *first* to join until it fills up - then I'll do that. I don't think bots are need after you get 3 humans on a CO map. That usually fills a server pretty quickly. It's the first three that are the trick. Bots only keep them placated long enough. And I bet after you put bots on - it'll be the same two or three joining to fill it from 0 to full as it was before you had the bots. They just won't be as bored.

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  27. #14

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    The more I think about it, mindset > all.

    If you don't like CO, and some part of you is insisting that you stay on the server, find another part of you that can find a way to take value from that time on the server.



    I have another idea. What about NS maps are all that's in rotation, but CO maps can be voted in? This means that every map change goes to NS, but the players have the power to play CO when the server is very low in population.

    Thoughts?



    We could combine that with alltalk always being on for CO maps, which might make the mood lighter.

    Thoughts?

    Wyzcrak
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  29. #15

    _Ender_'s Avatar

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    Re: NS Only Server, but with a twist?

    I like it.

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