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  1. #1

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Chainless Chambers?

    No, this thread isn't about Big-B's new love dungeon.

    Nemesis Zero, who has the dev team's respect, has created a poll at ns.org asking if chambers should be unchained from hives. I could explain, but it's all detailed in the following threads.

    For the love of God, if you've going to vote, read both the first post in the poll thread AND the first post in the thread that it references, at the very LEAST. That referenced thread clearly and precisely explains exactly what the poll is talking about. Despite this, many people clearly have misunderstood what the thread is talking about. Inform yourself before you decide.

    I voted yes for several reasons, including the following:

    Giving players the option to pick and choose opens up whole new areas of stratagy and makes the game far more diverse and interesting.
    Chainless Chambers, Take Two...



    .
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  3. #2

    CaveDog's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    I will vote "yes", I prefer whips to chains. The gimp mask stays, however.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    No, this thread isn't about Big-B's new love dungeon.
    .




    I mean... I will vote "yes", sounds like a good idea to try. I do agree that there are major balance issues to be worked out. That doesn't mean that it couldn't/shouldn't happen, but there is more work that just "turning it off" for a beta release and see how it goes.



    That daxx guy seems familliar....
    --
    CaveDog
    "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

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  5. #3

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    Not to say there aren't others, but...

    ... the only balance concern I see is that, after you build and lose a second hive, your alien team often is able to recover only by most effectively applying the combination of two upgrades types (one type from the remaining hive, one type from the lost hive). With this change, that wouldn't be possible.

    I think it would do more to help gameplay than it would do to hurt it.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  7. #4

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
    With this change, that wouldn't be possible.
    Actually, I'm not sure this is true. Your TEAM would still have two upgrade types, but no one individual player would have two upgrade types.

    ... hmmm......
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  9. #5
    Emanon
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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    I started to read and I didnt stop, very interesting. The original post is very clear and thought out.

    I voted yes. Mainly because of this:
    The problem with DMS is that whilst it's great for higher lifeforms, gorges and skulks miss out. There's a lot of talk now about skulks being too weak: the main reason being they're denied the evolutions that help them the most: cloaking, focus, silence, celerity and scent of fear. Sensory chambers are of tremendous help to alien teams, but they're not used because defense or movement has to be sacrificed for them.
    Just think of the possibilities.

    Remember people judge the Idea not the balance issues because they can be solved just like in every other major change that NS has gone through.


    About your comment wyz. The fact that skulks will be much more usefull past the 5-6 min mark which is when the second hive is pretty much done should counter that problem along with being able to sens spam things for skulks.
    Last edited by Emanon; 06-01-2004 at 02:36 PM.

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  11. #6

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    I liked the comments about fear. This would add constant unknowns to the game.

    As it stands in the first few minutes of a current game, skulk after skulk after skulk dies.. all you have to worry about when you engage the next skulk is if they have a defense upgrade or not (and you often don't have to guess long before you know which they have).

    With this change, each skulk (not each player, but each SKULK) brings a new possibility, which means you must counter it differently as a marine. That's scary.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  13. #7

    Wyzcrak's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    Also, the marine who "got all the D chambers" before he died can't take ultimate comfort. With this change, the aliens can just rebuild them (for the cost of a higher lifeform). I like that.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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  15. #8

    Vendetta's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    I voted yes. After much elaboration and reading, too. I like being an Informed voter

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  17. #9
    Emanon
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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    Cloaking still makes me jump no matter how many times I see it or not for that matter.

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  19. #10

    _Ender_'s Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    I've read both of the posts on the NS.org forums. With the info given I voted yes. I think it would be a great idea to give the aliens a choice in what they want to upgrade to. I personally like movement in the early game, I think silence is a great ability that always gets over looked and I hate the fact that I cant use silence because somebody needs d chambers so they can fade (and in some cases die within 20 seconds of getting into combat). I dont use d chambers as a skulk, its pointless (the only time I use them is when the 2nd hive completes. Leap + Regen owns) because they're paper thin either way and carapace really doesnt do a lot when the marines get lvl 2 weapons (which is 3 to 5 minutes into the game).

    With this suggestions, somebody can drop all the chambers so those of us who want to use cloak or silence can, and the fade gets his damn regen.

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  21. #11

    Zek's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    Finally someone of significance starts a poll on this, maybe Flayra will finally consider it. I definitely voted Yes. Aliens have been extremely linear since 1.0 and it's only gotten very slightly better.
    Last edited by Zek; 06-01-2004 at 04:52 PM.

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  23. #12


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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    I think that good alien teams will exploit this to no end, and I like the idea. It'll add an element that combat currently enjoys that ns should enjoy: every alien will be incredibly different. I know as a lerk, I'll LOVE this, because I can exploit the advantages of each chamber (I prefer celerity and focus for my combat lerking, and adrenaline/sof for support lerk). I hope this goes into affect, or at least a closed beta trial. If there's a closed test, I'll report the results.

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  25. #13

    Zek's Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    No matter how good the alien team is they can't overcome the limitations of their res, especially in the early game. Think of how often you've played on a 5-6 person alien team and the marines are holding down your nodes well enough that just affording the 3 Ds is difficult; 9 chambers is an early game impossibility. If aliens can afford it then I think they deserve an easier victory, something which is not possible right now before they get at least 2 hives and Fades/Onoses.

    P.S. An AMX plugin has been released to do just this. Any interest in trying it out?

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  27. #14

    _Ender_'s Avatar

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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    doesnt the server use metamod?

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  29. #15
    Emanon
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    Re: Chainless Chambers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zek
    P.S. An AMX plugin has been released to do just this. Any interest in trying it out?

    I Believe we try to stay away from plugs that drasticly impact the game. But im sure we could have a special night just to play around with it.

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