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  1. #1

    Fait_Maker's Avatar

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    If not Bush, why Kerry?

    The other thread was closed but I did want to ask a question. Since it doesn't really have anything to do with Moore, it should have probably been in a new thread anyway. So here it goes.

    Those of you who are anti-Bush, what do you expect to get with Kerry? What has he promised to do better and how has he promised to do it? I am really serious about this question. Search your thoughts and explain to me in a calm rational voice why YOU think Kerry is a better choice. That is what we are being asked of in November. Make a choice between the BETTER candidate. Ignore all the trash-talk about Bush. Center this only on Kerry. What will he do better?

    I know he's promised to bring back respect for the US regarding the U.N. How do you think he will acheive this? What could he possibly do to bring us back respect? The only think I can think of is some kind of appeasement. Maybe the better question is, should we even care if the U.N. respects us?

    He's already said he'll bring back taxes. Is he for human rights or against them? What have you heard him say about his platform? Have you heard him say anything other than how Bush was doing it wrong?

    I really want your thoughts. I don't want trash, insults or anything else that closed down the last thread. For those of you who can't manage a mature conversation about politics, think before you hit reply.

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  3. #2

    H-Hour's Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Maybe the better question is, should we even care if the U.N. respects us?
    Yes. Absolutely.

    To be honest, I don't like a lot of Kerry's positions, and I won't enjoy voting for him. I've never liked the Democrats or the Republicans, but other parties tend to just be irrational. You want us to answer the question without tying it to what Bush is doing, but that's just not the way it is for many people in this election. For many, the removal of Bush is paramount, even if it means we vote for someone we don't like. The lesser of two evils, so to speak.

    I think he will not tie American policy to fundamentalist support, I think the removal of neo-cons will be extremely important in reorienting our perspective of the middle east, and I think getting Bush out of office will be the strongest and best message America can send to the international community.

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  5. #3

    Fait_Maker's Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by H-Hour
    Yes. Absolutely.

    To be honest, I don't like a lot of Kerry's positions, and I won't enjoy voting for him. I've never liked the Democrats or the Republicans, but other parties tend to just be irrational. You want us to answer the question without tying it to what Bush is doing, but that's just not the way it is for many people in this election. For many, the removal of Bush is paramount, even if it means we vote for someone we don't like. The lesser of two evils, so to speak.

    I think he will not tie American policy to fundamentalist support, I think the removal of neo-cons will be extremely important in reorienting our perspective of the middle east, and I think getting Bush out of office will be the strongest and best message America can send to the international community.
    If you answer is "I want Kerry because I don't like Bush" than I suppose you are correct. However, Kerry is a neo-lib so what's the difference? What are you going to give up for the chance to get Bush out? How do you know Kerry is the lesser of the evils since Kerry hasn't really run on a platform other than "Bush sucks". I remember a time when candidates use to say "This is what I believe and this is how I'll acheive it", then you picked the one that was best aligned with your beliefs. Kerry hasn't told anyone what he will do other than the two things I've already named. If he has, I missed the press briefing. He has told us what he believes and then he changed his mind on it.
    Last edited by Fait_Maker; 07-07-2004 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Pressed go to quick before I finished my total thought.

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  7. #4

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by H-Hour
    Yes. Absolutely.

    To be honest, I don't like a lot of Kerry's positions, and I won't enjoy voting for him. I've never liked the Democrats or the Republicans, but other parties tend to just be irrational. You want us to answer the question without tying it to what Bush is doing, but that's just not the way it is for many people in this election. For many, the removal of Bush is paramount, even if it means we vote for someone we don't like. The lesser of two evils, so to speak.

    I think he will not tie American policy to fundamentalist support, I think the removal of neo-cons will be extremely important in reorienting our perspective of the middle east, and I think getting Bush out of office will be the strongest and best message America can send to the international community.

    so the message you speak of, is that admittting that america is wrong.

    i will disagree with that and i will not go into why unless the discussion leans that way in its due course but the implications o this message you talk about are not good. you want to associate with a community that was actually taking large deals with iraq whilst trying to decide a case for war. thats like a judge residing over his golf buddies murder, yet this faith that you put into the international community is that blind.

    and to the middle east, taking the guy who has promised to invade if they attack american soil out of power for another less agressive person, that is a good idea, i am sorry your logic is a bit well watered down to me.

    i cant argue for your option to remove bush but your reasons are a little shallow to me.


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  9. #5

    CingularDuality's Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    The only issue that has come to my attention that I favor Senator Kerry on, is his treatment of civil servents. I would expect much bigger salary increases if he were President. Right now, I believe that I would personally benefit much more if Senator Kerry were elected.

    But that's not enough to get me to vote for him. I'm looking at the big picture and his opponent is a better leader for this country when it comes to the issues that are important to me. I think that our country has sent an important message to the world. We're no longer going to stand for UN ineptitude and inaction. We're going to make the world a better place with or without UN support.

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  11. #6

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by CingularDuality
    The only issue that has come to my attention that I favor Senator Kerry on, is his treatment of civil servents. I would expect much bigger salary increases if he were President. Right now, I believe that I would personally benefit much more if Senator Kerry were elected.

    But that's not enough to get me to vote for him. I'm looking at the big picture and his opponent is a better leader for this country when it comes to the issues that are important to me. I think that our country has sent an important message to the world. We're no longer going to stand for UN ineptitude and inaction. We're going to make the world a better place with or without UN support.

    good argument,

    i could not put that better at all,

    the guy who pretty much is guranteeing that the repercussions of terror against the USA is not worth it, is far better than apeasing the situation and talkling to the countires involved at length like cclinton did and what i expect senator kerry would.


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  13. #7

    =DdogG='s Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    my objection to kerry is that he has no firm belief on anything. abortion, gun control, defecit, defense, 1st amendment, illegal immigrants, taxes, separation of church and state, civil rights, foriegn policy, homeland security, economic growth, environment, you name it, and he has skirted it on more than one occasion. I would rather a candidate tell me exactly what they believe and be opposite me than try to fluff out of answering me any day. a man who is dead set opposite my view would get a vote from me before kerry would. at least I know what bush plans to do. even though I hate his stand on environmental issues, he did tell the world "screw the un, we'll blow you the f*** up if you mess with us, biotch." but then again, I think afganistan would be better off after 50 nukes opened up over it. it's not like we would knock over a building or anything, it would still be dessert, but would glow a pretty green at night to help light up china and north korea. they would thank us for the electric bill savings... NO MORE ROLLING BLACKOUTS!!!!!!
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein
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  15. #8

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Kerry is pretty clear on gun control - having voted with Feinstein and Kennedy to continue the "Clinton Gun Ban."

    If there's a Congress of the opposite party it's not like the President can do too much anyway.

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  17. #9

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by =DdogG=
    my objection to kerry is that he has no firm belief on anything. abortion, gun control, defecit, defense, 1st amendment, illegal immigrants, taxes, separation of church and state, civil rights, foriegn policy, homeland security, economic growth, environment, you name it, and he has skirted it on more than one occasion. I would rather a candidate tell me exactly what they believe and be opposite me than try to fluff out of answering me any day. a man who is dead set opposite my view would get a vote from me before kerry would. at least I know what bush plans to do. even though I hate his stand on environmental issues, he did tell the world "screw the un, we'll blow you the f*** up if you mess with us, biotch." but then again, I think afganistan would be better off after 50 nukes opened up over it. it's not like we would knock over a building or anything, it would still be dessert, but would glow a pretty green at night to help light up china and north korea. they would thank us for the electric bill savings... NO MORE ROLLING BLACKOUTS!!!!!!

    pk where there is some of this namely the nukes that i think is pure humour otherwise, damn man you need counsiling. i think this is true, however from my understanding i thought kerry had a stand on tax. up up up as far as i heard. lol


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  19. #10

    =DdogG='s Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    um...... hmm...... well....... uhhh...... what!?!?!?!

    are you agreeing with me or arguing with me?
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein
    The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison

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  21. #11

    DudeMan's Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by =DdogG=
    um...... hmm...... well....... uhhh...... what!?!?!?!

    are you agreeing with me or arguing with me?

    welkl it was clear to me not toy you, ok

    i agree with the bulk.

    i hopw the nukes was a joke... because if not you need help

    and kerry has a stance on tax. simple one raise them ...


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  23. #12

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupid
    Kerry is pretty clear on gun control - having voted with Feinstein and Kennedy to continue the "Clinton Gun Ban."

    If there's a Congress of the opposite party it's not like the President can do too much anyway.
    During war the Commander in Chief makes critical decisions regardless of who controls Congress. If you think that plopping 140000 troops right next to Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia, and yes removing Saddam Hussein from power hurts us in our efforts to fight terror, vote for Kerry. If you think that the proper approach is to work with France and Germany to do....something, then don't vote for Bush.

    As far as the economy goes, it doesn't matter who you vote for. The economy is big enough to take care of itself. Personally, I prefer Bush's direct policies and steady hand to Kerry's nuanced flip-flopping, and I truly fear the result of Kerry's foreign policies.

    With regard to H-Hour's comments about foreign policy lead by fundamentalism and noe-conservatives, I don't understand what that means? Which actions would you change?

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  25. #13

    Tempus's Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    If not Bush, why Kerry?

    I would vote for the crack-whore down the street before I would vote for Bush.

    Does that answer your question?

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  27. #14

    =DdogG='s Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by DudeMan
    welkl it was clear to me not toy you, ok

    i agree with the bulk.

    i hopw the nukes was a joke... because if not you need help

    and kerry has a stance on tax. simple one raise them ...

    oh.... thats what I thought, but I wanted to make sure..... and yes, the nuke comment was about 95% joke. somewhere deepdown Im a merciless bastard.

    that part of me feels like this: If I were pres. I would have 1 of two standings

    1) you hate us so much? fine we pull every soldier out of every country. you want our help, that's 1000 a week per soldier. there goes the debt. we will trade with countries that ask us to, but others can kiss our butts.

    2) if you even threaten to hurt an american or an american ally, we give the last country you were known to be in 2 weeks to hunt you down and hand over a confirmed corpse, if not, then we nuke the whole freakin country.

    this would do four things. 1) no one would ever hide a terrorist again. 2) EVERYONE would want to be our friend. 3) we could charge people to be our friend.... there goes the debt. 4) no one would be stupid enough to be a terrorist, cause they would be hunted by the whole world.


    it would work. but I would never get reelected...... but if I were going against bush, I could tell the world my plans and still get elected....... HMMMM>>>>>>> VOTE DdogG 4 PRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein
    The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison

    If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

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  29. #15

    DudeMan's Avatar

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    Re: If not Bush, why Kerry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempus
    If not Bush, why Kerry?

    I would vote for the crack-whore down the street before I would vote for Bush.

    Does that answer your question?

    no actuallyy it doesnt, if not buy WHY KERRY

    its not hard, give some reasons why you vote for kerry


    www.TeamElement.com

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